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Nathan
Big Sky Guy
USA
15549 Posts |
 Posted - 11/06/2009 : 11:27:26
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due to the historical value (col. jeff cooper helped create it) im looking for a bren ten standard model in at least rebuildable condition, in the $1000 range. there are several on gun broker but theyre going for $1850+. any leads appreciated. |
 
"In the foolishness of my heart, I thought that the truth would be a defense." - Harold Fish |
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AzAKguy
Senior Member
1034 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2009 : 00:19:19
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Gosh, does that thing ever look like a Hi Power! But then again the CZ75 is kind of DA/SA knock off of the HP , and the Bren 10 pistol is supposed to be based on the CZ 75 - the only 9 mm Cooper ever seemed to have anything good to say about. I also find it interesting that Cooper and his associates elected not to just build a 1911 pattern gun for the Bren 10 as opposed to a variation on the HP/CZ75 design, unless being true to JMB he wanted external extractor like the 1911 in JMBs first design incorporated. Or maybe it was for the "double strike" capability of the "75" - assuming that the Bren 10 like the "75" is DA/SA? Or is the Bren 10 pistol a SA only? I can't imagine that the Bren 10 had a "Traditional DA/SA action" (read Walther) because Cooper thought it would be good to carry it in the mode that he referred to "a solution for a non existent problem". Or maybe he and his associates did not want to create a gun that any other of mfg of 1911 pattern guns could so easily compete with by doing little more than re-chambering.
I had heard of Bren 10 but never paid much attention to it until I read Nathan's post looking for one, and I did an internet search.
If I am reading correctly, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10mm_Auto the Bren 10 round, 10x25 is the SAME as the modern 10 mm auto round used in the Glock 20 for example?????? If this is correct its a surprise to me because I thought that that the Bren 10 round was an abandoned cartridge that died out with the production of the pistol first designed to shoot it.
I knew that the FBI jumped on 10 mm after their road side encounter with Platt and Matix in Florida:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_FBI_Miami_shootout
However I thought it was a completely new round just of the same diameter of the Bren 10 round. Well for all the Jeff Cooper and Chuck Taylor stuff I have read, and living a short drive from Gunsite, the ultimate bastion of combat shooting to some, I am surprised I never heard or came across anything of Copper gloating (as he never struck me as an overly modest man) over the eventual if only short time, acceptance of his "baby" by the nation's "most respected LE organization"..
I have long thought that the 10 mm Auto cartridge would be a neat round to chamber a sub gun in, like the H&K MP5/10 - seems like that would be “the stuff“.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=963-B2Al428
AzAKguy |
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FFemt5287
Baron of Obscure Calibers
USA
2961 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2009 : 04:48:25
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| AzAKguy, the 10mm auto and 10x25 are synonymous. And I can't agree more about the MP5/10!! |
 The Baron of Obscure Calibers |
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AzAKguy
Senior Member
1034 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2009 : 05:24:44
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Thank you FFemt
so the bren 10 round is the same as what the glock 20 shoots? |
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FFemt5287
Baron of Obscure Calibers
USA
2961 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2009 : 05:26:43
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Correct.
Nate, any word on that company (the name escapes me right now) that was trying to release new models of the Bren Ten?? I'll have to look up who they are to substantiate this claim. |
The Baron of Obscure Calibers |
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Phil587
Junior Member
150 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2009 : 08:57:52
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Nathan,
I understand and fully support wanting an "original" but, considering the prices, I simply decided to wait on the "new" Bren Ten. Fortis purchased the rights to the name and their new 10MM will be called the Bren Ten. Supposedly, it is an "improved" version of the original.
http://vltor.wordpress.com/ |
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FFemt5287
Baron of Obscure Calibers
USA
2961 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2009 : 09:16:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Phil587
Nathan,
I understand and fully support wanting an "original" but, considering the prices, I simply decided to wait on the "new" Bren Ten. Fortis purchased the rights to the name and their new 10MM will be called the Bren Ten. Supposedly, it is an "improved" version of the original.
http://vltor.wordpress.com/
Thats what I was referring to. Thanks Phil!! |
The Baron of Obscure Calibers |
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Phil587
Junior Member
150 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2009 : 09:23:08
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quote:
Originally posted by FFemt5287
quote:
Originally posted by Phil587
Nathan,
I understand and fully support wanting an "original" but, considering the prices, I simply decided to wait on the "new" Bren Ten. Fortis purchased the rights to the name and their new 10MM will be called the Bren Ten. Supposedly, it is an "improved" version of the original.
http://vltor.wordpress.com/
Thats what I was referring to. Thanks Phil!!
You're very welcome. I knew you were on the right road -- just needed a little boost. :) |
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Nathan
Big Sky Guy
USA
15549 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2009 : 11:20:23
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quote:
Originally posted by AzAKguy
being true to JMB he wanted external extractor like the 1911 in JMBs first design incorporated.
jmb's first 1911 used in internal extractor. many of the prototypes he created leading up to the finished product used external an internal extractors. this is the point of building prototypes; to determine what works and what doesnt. the final product that was presented to the army was the same 1911 we see today in the springfield GI 1911. the internal extractor was never a requirement of the US army; they simply wanted a design that works. going with the internal extractor on the 1911 was all JMB, as he determined that it worked best in the 1911 design.
i have some pictures of the actual prototypes floating around somewhere i will dig up. i took them when i visited the browning museum in ogden UT in 2007. ive posted them here before but those threads are long since gone. |
"In the foolishness of my heart, I thought that the truth would be a defense." - Harold Fish |
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AzAKguy
Senior Member
1034 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2009 : 19:31:19
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Nathan - internal vs external extractor/ JMBs choice - thanks for filling me in Nathan, that is interesting. I had read that JMB designed the 1911 prototype with an external as it was his preference and the military wanted an internal and JMB didn't get to implement his preference till the P35/Hi Power came around.
We all get exposed to so much BS its often hard to tell when your getting the truth unless you are reading like an autobiography or if you go some place like the Browning Museum where you can be pretty much be sure you are getting the straight scoop. That must have been pretty neat to see and experience.
Thanks again
Az |
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gunslinger
Senior Member
USA
1352 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2009 : 13:01:32
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I shot an original Bren 10 and it was complete garbage--and unsafe to shoot, based on the product liability lawsuits filed that put them out of business. Charles Daly made better pistols. Surprised you'd want one.
The Bren Ten was a semi-automatic pistol designed to advance the state of the art in sidearms, combining a new more powerful round with a weapon of greater strength and accuracy. The cartridge developed as the 10 mm Auto, while the gun was a larger and stronger version of the 9x19mm Parabellum CZ-75. The Bren Ten was produced only in small numbers before the company went bankrupt. A subsequent attempt to resurrect it by Peregrine Industries as the Falcon and the Phoenix were also unsuccessful as that company, too, succumbed to financial pressures and dropped production of the pistol.
The Ten remains a weapon of some controversy. Many enthusiasts consider it to be one of the best pistols of its era, and the 10 mm Auto is one of the most powerful semi-automatic pistol rounds available even to this day. Quality control, however, was poor; many of the guns were delivered with missing or inoperable magazines for instance. The magazines were very hard to come by and cost over $100 apiece. Norma Ammunition Company's 10 mm Auto ammo was made in large quantities in Sweden but there was no pistol to use it before Colt launched the Colt Delta Elite, a 10 mm version of the M1911 pistol in 1988.
Slide cracked, barrels were prone to eating the bushings and the frames warped. No thanks. |
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Nathan
Big Sky Guy
USA
15549 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2009 : 15:00:25
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quote:
Originally posted by gunslinger
Surprised you'd want one.
as stated in my original post, due to historical value. this is also why i am only willing to go about $1000 into one. many were problematic, but most werent. there are many still used today that are as good as they day they were made.
hopefully vltors bren ten will be of higher quality than the original, but since this isnt a carry weapon and i hope to purchase one for historical value only, the vltor version isnt on my must-have list. |
"In the foolishness of my heart, I thought that the truth would be a defense." - Harold Fish |
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gunslinger
Senior Member
USA
1352 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2009 : 10:15:50
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| Well, ok. I can see that as a don't shoot, just look at investment. I'm sure the later ones solved some of the problems and you know enough to check it out. Good luck. Shall we call you "Sonny" when you get it? Thinking of buying a Corvette that looks like a Ferrari too? |
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Nathan
Big Sky Guy
USA
15549 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2009 : 10:21:25
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oh its not about "sonny", its about jeff.  |
"In the foolishness of my heart, I thought that the truth would be a defense." - Harold Fish |
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gunslinger
Senior Member
USA
1352 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2009 : 10:22:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Nathan
oh its not about "sonny", its about jeff.
Yeah, but Don Johnson is better looking than the Colonel... |
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nolt
Senior Member
1579 Posts |
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seeking bren
