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PrepareParabellum
Average Member
886 Posts |
 Posted - 02/21/2010 : 18:30:52
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My father in law has always carried his .38 Snubby in 5.11 pants. There's been no talking him in to a real gun, but I've always been glad that at least he had that. (And I've made certain that at least he carries the only ammunition that he might have a chance with given that weapon.)
Finally, I have a chance to get him to man up to a real gun, but there's a problem. The reason he's willing to trade up is it hurts his arthritis to shoot the .38. He's looking for something that won't hurt his hands so much.
So my question is, what larger revolver (I don't think he can rack a slide) will better protect him, yet have less recoil (or bottom line hurt his hand less) that will fit in the pocket of his 5.11 pants? |
Bob
  SA SS 1911 TRP: Cocked, Locked, and ready to Rock.
Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks. -- Thomas Jefferson
Molôn Labe.
Cogito, ergo armatium sum.
Fio Para Bellator.
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Renigeid
Advanced Member
USA
3045 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2010 : 19:27:59
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| Buy him a Kahr PM9. Yes, the rack has to be pulled once to load the first time but it has a great trigger and he could handle it with standard loads perhaps. I would suggest trying before buying tho. I have the same old mans problem and I can handle my PM9 as well as my wheel guns. Although the SP101 hurts less with hougue grips but it is heavy as an anvil.. |
Jim |
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FFemt5287
Baron of Obscure Calibers
USA
3577 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2010 : 19:39:14
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| I was going to suggest the SP101 like renigeid did for the weight and suggest adding softer grips, also. The only way to stay with an adequate caliber revolver and "hurt" less is to increase the weight or change the grips. Unless he goes the route to have it ported, but that's a whole other argument! |
 The Baron of Obscure Calibers |
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LandonJ
Advanced Member
USA
6375 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2010 : 20:08:52
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| What's wrong with what he has now? That's what most old guys carry. Leave him be. Just make sure he's loaded up with 158 gr JHP and he'll be good to go. |
"You are only out-gunned if you miss." -Jeff Cooper
Amatuers train until they get it right. Professionals train until they get it wrong.
NRA Life Member
NRA Certified Instructor
Utah CFP Instructor
USMC veteran
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mattinglyt
Watchdog
USA
11960 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2010 : 20:21:51
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| I see nothing wrong w/ his current carry weapon. The J-frame size revolver IS a real gun of real caliber. The one thing I'd suggest is to find someone who you trust to reaload some lower pressure rounds for practice, that is of course if you don't reload yourself. The lower pressure rounds will be fine for target practice and he'll still be able to be proficient w/ his pistol, also as a revolver, it's not mandatory to have enough pressure to work the slide. As long as he carries good defense ammo he'll be fine and probably will not notice the recoil when the time of a SD shooting occurs. If he's comfy and profficient w/ the revolver, help him keep it. |
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KeysGuy
Advanced Member
USA
3726 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2010 : 20:29:46
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quote:
Originally posted by mattinglyt
I see nothing wrong w/ his current carry weapon. The J-frame size revolver IS a real gun of real caliber. The one thing I'd suggest is to find someone who you trust to reaload some lower pressure rounds for practice, that is of course if you don't reload yourself. The lower pressure rounds will be fine for target practice and he'll still be able to be proficient w/ his pistol, also as a revolver, it's not mandatory to have enough pressure to work the slide. As long as he carries good defense ammo he'll be fine and probably will not notice the recoil when the time of a SD shooting occurs. If he's comfy and profficient w/ the revolver, help him keep it.
+1 Old trusted gun, perhaps softer grips, and lighter target loads. Sounds like a win - win to me. |
Keys Guy
One thing we can learn from history is we do not learn from history. (Unknown)
Best way to win a gun fight? "That's easy, don't show up for it." -------Wyatt Earp 1920
I was taught to respect my elders. It's just getting harder to find them. (me)
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808Shogun
Senior Member
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2010 : 21:20:27
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| Agree with the other posters, Keep the 38 Special. Can't beat the reliablility of a Revolver. Give him some speedloaders and he's good to go. |
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PrepareParabellum
Average Member
886 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2010 : 21:35:36
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Great suggestions here, thank you gentlemen. I just want to be sure that whatever he is trying to stop has a good chance of being stopped.
I've heard some hair raising stories out of him... like he was on his farm when a cute girly-girl knocks on his door. His wife answers and girly says, "I'm working my way through college and selling vacuum cleaners. May I demonstrate one for you? Elderly wife says, "sure!" Girly says, my boss actually does the demonstrations, and waves with a 'come here' motion. In walks some guy who clearly just got out of inner-city jail (who had been hiding out of site). Elderly wife is not comfortable, but inner-city guy is not taking no for an answer.
Just then, my father-in-law happens to come in from the farm and see what is going on and asks inner-city-guy to leave. Inner-city-guy says, "this is between me and her and she invited me in." Father in law reaches for pocket at which time inner-city-guy's eyes get big and he takes his  and he leaves.
Unfortunately, my father-in-law lives in an area where this kind of stuff is common...and sadly...they tend to get taken advantage of. (They paid $8,000 for 10 gallons of driveway sealer to be applied...mostly because he was afraid of the guy who sealed it first, then asked for the money...when he had answered the door from being asleep on a weekend morning...without his gun.
So anyway, it's not my intention to be mean to him...but I wish I could install cannons at the corners of his roof and a web cam...all controlled from my laptop...and then let somebody try to rip him off... |
Bob
SA SS 1911 TRP: Cocked, Locked, and ready to Rock.
Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks. -- Thomas Jefferson
Molôn Labe.
Cogito, ergo armatium sum.
Fio Para Bellator.
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mattinglyt
Watchdog
USA
11960 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2010 : 21:47:20
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| It's sad that he is in a place w/ people like that, but I'd be more comfy w/ a loved one if they had a pistol they trusted and didn't have to get used to somthing new at a time like that. 38 special is a fine round and will take care of what he needs. Keep in mind about the lighter practice rounds. I'm going to have to do that for my wife w/ her SW 642, but she'll carry full power SD rounds. |
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PrepareParabellum
Average Member
886 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2010 : 21:57:51
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Thanks Ted. I didn't write it in the original post, but my wife isn't thrilled with the recoil of her .38 either. She got used to it over time, but truly, my XD45 beats her hands up less. I think I'm going to learn how to reload and take that advice.
Although I'll tell you, I'm tempted to get her the .357 SP101 and let her do most of her practice with .38's but let her carry .357 after we know she can control it... |
Bob
SA SS 1911 TRP: Cocked, Locked, and ready to Rock.
Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks. -- Thomas Jefferson
Molôn Labe.
Cogito, ergo armatium sum.
Fio Para Bellator.
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Joshua
Advanced Member
3382 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2010 : 22:32:03
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I agree with most of the suggestions.
Would a heavy revolver with a trigger job, ported barrel, and comfortable grips be better?
Does he have a long gun for home defense? From what you've said that would be a good addition if he doesn't already have one. |
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JDJ
Advanced Member
USA
2794 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2010 : 00:30:27
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| I also agree that a .357 platform with the .38s and rubber grips may work for him. Is there a range close to him where he can rent one to see? |
NRA Life Member
Glock 27,23OD,22RTF2,30SF
Ruger Super Redhawk .44
Stop whining... Do something and make a difference! |
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PrepareParabellum
Average Member
886 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2010 : 07:43:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Joshua
Does he have a long gun for home defense? From what you've said that would be a good addition if he doesn't already have one.
My wife grew up with her dad hunting constantly. He has many standard hunting rifles and shotguns, but he doesn't have a combat rifle for self defense. You make an excellent point, and I will make sure he has one. |
Bob
SA SS 1911 TRP: Cocked, Locked, and ready to Rock.
Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks. -- Thomas Jefferson
Molôn Labe.
Cogito, ergo armatium sum.
Fio Para Bellator.
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DaddyO16
Advanced Member
USA
6026 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2010 : 07:47:52
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| My dad has a Colt Commando .38 snubbie that he kept after WWII, and he keeps it in his nightstand. I've never dreamed of talking him into something else as I think what he has would do the job. I'm just grateful that he has the means to protect himself and my mom. |
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PrepareParabellum
Average Member
886 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2010 : 07:51:22
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quote:
Originally posted by JDJ
I also agree that a .357 platform with the .38s and rubber grips may work for him. Is there a range close to him where he can rent one to see?
After sleeping on this, I've come to the realization that I can implement the best of both worlds...a heavier framed .357 and lighter .38 loads to practice with. (Works for my wife also...and I think she's going to get two new guns...because she's about to inherit my 9mm PPS when I buy the .40!
We can ever have too many guns for sure.
On the range, he does have a range near him, but he owns some land in VA and shoots there. In the better economy we could afford to be there often, but in this economy...not so much.
But my wife's sister agreed last night that she would drive their dad to Charlotte once per month & we're going to meet there once per month and try out their shooting ranges.
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Bob
SA SS 1911 TRP: Cocked, Locked, and ready to Rock.
Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks. -- Thomas Jefferson
Molôn Labe.
Cogito, ergo armatium sum.
Fio Para Bellator.
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PrepareParabellum
Average Member
886 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2010 : 07:53:59
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quote:
Originally posted by DaddyO16
My dad has a Colt Commando .38 snubbie that he kept after WWII, and he keeps it in his nightstand. I've never dreamed of talking him into something else as I think what he has would do the job. I'm just grateful that he has the means to protect himself and my mom.
Thanks for this. Have you seen the nightstand video that Nate posted? None of my business, but I just wanted to put it out there that maybe he should keep it on him -- especially when at home. |
Bob
SA SS 1911 TRP: Cocked, Locked, and ready to Rock.
Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks. -- Thomas Jefferson
Molôn Labe.
Cogito, ergo armatium sum.
Fio Para Bellator.
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Renigeid
Advanced Member
USA
3045 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2010 : 08:17:46
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Guys, being an older guy myself (I still like my autos and carry them sometimes and my night gun, on the bed, is a 45 colt full size), I am finding I carry my 38spl, mod 60 or my SP101 more and more. I also find it more confortable to shoot reduced loads for practice, I load my own, and load up full power for carry in either. I go with +p's in the mod 60 and 357 in the SP101.
Yeah, just this last summer I had the vac sales folks visit my wife. I walked up from the shop and sent them packing. Guy wanted to know if the lazer on the mod 60 worked and I told his yes by putting a dot on vac.. Smart ass. He left quickly. They just LOVE old folks!! |
Jim |
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1813Anschutz
Advanced Member
USA
2304 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2010 : 09:29:48
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Leave his gun alone...it is a great choice for HIM not you. HE is comfortable with it and actually carries it.A larger frame gun firing a .357 is actually a step backwards...more weight for one and secondly more recoil from a .357 (more likely to be left behind due to those factors...) Now,if HE wants to change something that is another matter. If something needs to be changed at all, look at the multitude of j frame grips available.
Your intentions are well-meaning but they are for YOUR reasons NOT his. A .38 revolver is NOT a mouse gun although many on this site would have you believe that it is. I frequently carry a model 36 in my front pocket and trust my life to it. Do I have other choices? yes I do, do I use them? yes I do! I frequently carry a 1911, an XD 45 FS, M&P .45 FS, A S&W 3rd Generation 4006,a S&W Model 66 3", a CZ .40 FS, etc....full size and full power is not a problem for me.
Leave HIS choice alone until HE wants to change something..
I say all of this because as an instructor for 22 years I see it all of the time with well meaning husbands,fathers, boyfriends, grandfathers, etc wanting to equip their ladies with what they would choose, not what fits the lady. They probably try to buy her shoes as well.....
Randy
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"The more I shoot,the LUCKIER I seem to get!" |
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mattinglyt
Watchdog
USA
11960 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2010 : 10:22:26
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quote:
Originally posted by 1813Anschutz
Leave his gun alone...it is a great choice for HIM not you. HE is comfortable with it and actually carries it.A larger frame gun firing a .357 is actually a step backwards...more weight for one and secondly more recoil from a .357 (more likely to be left behind due to those factors...) Now,if HE wants to change something that is another matter. If something needs to be changed at all, look at the multitude of j frame grips available.
Your intentions are well-meaning but they are for YOUR reasons NOT his. A .38 revolver is NOT a mouse gun although many on this site would have you believe that it is. I frequently carry a model 36 in my front pocket and trust my life to it. Do I have other choices? yes I do, do I use them? yes I do! I frequently carry a 1911, an XD 45 FS, M&P .45 FS, A S&W 3rd Generation 4006,a S&W Model 66 3", a CZ .40 FS, etc....full size and full power is not a problem for me.
Leave HIS choice alone until HE wants to change something..
I say all of this because as an instructor for 22 years I see it all of the time with well meaning husbands,fathers, boyfriends, grandfathers, etc wanting to equip their ladies with what they would choose, not what fits the lady. They probably try to buy her shoes as well.....
Randy
Randy helps drive my point home a little more w/ the weight and recoil issue. The SP101 will also be slightly larger.
Although, Randy, I doubt you'll find too many people here who think the 38spcl is a mousegun. Many of use think the 9mm/38spcl is the bare minimum and either is well qualified to handle the situation. I carry a Taurus 85 w/ +P's for back up and my wife carries a SW642 w/ +P's as her primary |
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PrepareParabellum
Average Member
886 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2010 : 12:28:47
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I tend to be a pretty black-and-white thinker, and from Nate's carry guide, he describes the .38 as 'Adequate as a primary carry weapon in 158 grain +P loads' (which both my wife and father-in-law carry). Increasingly better adjectives are used as the caliber gets larger until the 'Ballistically superior' .45 is covered.
So I tend to regard everything less than .45 as 'not the best you could do,' and therefore my reasoning behind trying to upgrade the world at least from the lowest acceptable choice on the list to something higher.
I did refer to the .38 as not being a 'real gun' and for that I apologize...it's just my blanket-all-or-nothing personality and I didn't mean to offend.
I do see the point of not pushing people in to something they won't carry...that would be the worst thing of all. If I can nicely educate and create a desire for someone to upgrade, however, I think I'm doing them a favor. |
Bob
SA SS 1911 TRP: Cocked, Locked, and ready to Rock.
Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks. -- Thomas Jefferson
Molôn Labe.
Cogito, ergo armatium sum.
Fio Para Bellator.
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Joshua
Advanced Member
3382 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2010 : 22:06:24
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Why do some think he should stick with what he has?
If he is wanting something that won't hurt his hands as much to shoot that seems like a good reason to switch.
QUOTE:
"The reason he's willing to trade up is it hurts his arthritis to shoot the .38. He's looking for something that won't hurt his hands so much."
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mattinglyt
Watchdog
USA
11960 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2010 : 22:45:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Joshua
Why do some think he should stick with what he has?
If he is wanting something that won't hurt his hands as much to shoot that seems like a good reason to switch.
QUOTE:
"The reason he's willing to trade up is it hurts his arthritis to shoot the .38. He's looking for something that won't hurt his hands so much."
Reason being - he is very familiar with this gun and he is apparently proficient with it. He would have to get used to and break in a new pistol and become familiar with it. Hence the lighter loaded practice rounds. With these he'll be able to practice just as much or more. A revolver isn't dependent on velocity to operate a slide so it will still operate as normal.
Also, there are a number of different grips that can make it more comfortable to shoot as well as easier to control. |
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JJinSC
Average Member
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2010 : 11:54:21
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| Find out what it is about his arthritis that is bothering him. For example, my father is 80 years old and the arthritis in his fingers will not let him bend is trigger finger joint. The main joint has calcified to the point of fushion. He likes his .38 S&W but wanted a semi-auto. With his joint problem, he could not pull a DOA trigger. I helped him find a glock trigger which he loves. So he now carries a .40 glock 27. The recoil or racking of the slide does not bother his arthritis at all. Arthritis can cause different issues, so it is important to understand what his issues are before making any decisions. I vote for letting him keep what he is familiar with and is willing to carry, unless he expresses the desire for something new. |
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RPB
Junior Member
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2010 : 19:38:19
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Glad a solution was found.
I have only 1 hand, born with only one hand, and it has arthritis in joints and wrist.
1) 357 platform with the .38s and rubber grips is my only revolver, I keep it in the bathroom because it's Stanless.
2) I carry a Glock 19 and Glock 26 .... compensated due to no support hand/muzzle flip/arthritic wrist ... for faster followup shot.
Glocks with Advantage Tactical Sights allow using the rear sight to rack the slide on a wrist/forearm/belt/shoesole/corner of a table/building etc. (plus they are great for old eyes. I use the orange rear and yellow front.) The Advantage Tactical Sights were so easy to install, i did it single-handedly (bad joke, but I get to use it a lot) 
I have no affiliation with any company, I'm retired from everything.
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BikerRN
Average Member
720 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2010 : 09:51:48
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If someone with hand problems, arthritis, loss of function in a hand, etc is considering an autoloader I'd suggest reading what I wrote on one handed reloads.
Many people have hand issues that prevent them from racking a slide. That doesn't mean that they can't chamber a round safely however, and often will find the Skateboard Tape method I like to advocate as easier.
FWIW, my wife prefers the 9mm, as she finds it "softer" than the 38 Special in terms of recoil. She too has trouble racking the slide due to wrist/shoulder issues. If one can hold on to the gun and run their arm down their pant leg they can most likely chamber a round using the one handed method I desribed in another post.
Take care and stay safe.
Biker
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AimCenter
Starting Member
USA
24 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2010 : 13:15:15
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| Perhaps some PAST Shooters gloves with padding on the palm would eliminate the pain. I wish Ruger would make an LCR for 9mm. I was amazed at the difference in recoil. |
XDm 9mm
1911 EMP 9mm
Ruger LCR
Mossberg 500
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81 year old with arthritis
