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sidroski
Advanced Member
USA
2268 Posts |
 Posted - 03/03/2010 : 22:15:35
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They sell the three & four die sets with the fourth being a crimper. For loading pistol ammo, do I need to put the extra money for those? If I don't need it, why do they sell it (other than the obvious, to make more money).
What brand and model tumbler do you use to clean your brass and what do you put in it. I've heard everything from sand to cat litter.
What calipers and digital scales do you use?
What is the reason for the scoop they include since many loads are different from the scoop. Should I buy the set of scoops since they are so cheap? |
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Chris_T
Senior Member
1903 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2010 : 22:34:06
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I use a tumbler bought from harbor freight, and got my walnut media from them too. you get more media for less from harbor freight.
the calipers i use are a set i bought off the snap-on truck when i was working on cars. The ones from sears should serve fine, or from northern tool.
I use a RCBS balance beam scale.
I've got a set of the LEE RGB dies, as i understand it these are the same dies without the extras but not sure as they are the only lee dies i have. all other dies are RCBS
I haven't used the scoops but I do have the LEE perfect powder measure and use it a LOT.
for straight walled pistol ammo i'd suggest getting carbide dies so you don't have to mess with lube. if your like me you'll find you do a BUNCH of pistol ammo at one time and not having to mess with the lube pad will be NICE. |
"A government strong enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have"
---Thomas Jefferson
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."
--Robert A. Heinlein
"Remember democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide."
-- John Adams |
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lwknight
Senior Member
USA
1352 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2010 : 22:34:44
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I would buy the 4 die set. The 4th FCD is handy to have when crimping just won't work out in the seating die. Only problen with the FCD is that on straight walled cases , if you use versized cast bullets , it will size the bullit as the case goes through the check sizer. The check sizer can be knocked out if you want to.
You might be thinking of "Lzzard litter " for media. Its just a cheap way to get walnut hull, exactly the same thing as the high $$ tumbling media in a bigger package. I would stay from the Horrible Freight tumblers. Folks sat that they just don't last. I use a "Midway " branded Lyman knock off that has served me well for many years.
I have some old Craftman calipers and use a RCBS balance beam scale. I also use the RCBS powder measure so I only weigh every fow charges to be sure or consistancy.
I throw the stupid scoop in the trash. Its for cheapscaters that will not buy a powder measure. Its a real handicap because you cannot tailer your loads incrementally unless you buy the whols set and still you have limits. |
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Punch
Junior Member
USA
449 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2010 : 07:04:41
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Buy the four die Lee set when you can. I have not had any problem loading autojammer cartridges like the .45 ACP and 9mm since getting that fourth die. It makes crimping a dream, and the re-sizer is very useful if you have tight chambers (like my .38/44 S&W) that do not like ammunition that deviates much from SAAMI specs.
You should really have a good powder scale and powder measure. In fact, these (and a set of calipers) should be some of the most expensive reloading equipment you own. A powder trickler is also very useful. I use the dippers a lot and have a full set of them. They are about all that I use for loading rifle ammunition. After years of chronograph testing, I have found the dippers to produce loads every bit as accurate as those thrown from a powder measure. As to incremental changes in loads, my chronograph testing has shown that to be over rated, too (at least for the most part). I also use the dippers when I am loading pistol ammunition with powders that do not flow well from a measure (800-X comes to mind). I will throw a charge into the pan of the scale with the dipper and then "trickle" the powder until I get the charge that I want. It is slow, but I used this method for years in competition and my ammo was known for accuracy and reliability. I should note that I am partial to flake powders in pistols and stick powders in rifles. If you are using ball powder, throw the dippers away and use a good powder measure (except I use dippers with ball powder when loading rifle ammo).
If you have a good outdoor place to shoot, a chronograph is a good tool to have. Without one, it is really hard to know exactly what you are doing with changes in variables. Accuracy testing is good - particularly with rifles. Unless you are using a poodle shooter, a couple hundred feet per second one way or another will not significantly alter what happens when the bullet hits a target. My most accurate rifle loads are reduced loads, and a deer or other animal will not notice that the 168 grain STHP hit him 200 ft/sec slower than max. A pistol is another issue altogether. Most pistols are marginal stoppers to begin with, and I find them to work best at maximum or near maximum velocities and pressure. This is where a powder scale comes in real handy. Many powders are relatively forgiving in the mid ranges. But when you start loading faster burning powders in low capacity cases (such as used by auto loading pistols), 0.10 grains can be the difference between a +P load and a blown up gun (particularly if you have not been real careful with bullet seating depth).
Consistency is your friend, and equipment you use to gain this is your friend. Any tumbler will work, so you don't need to go broke on one. However, you do want tools to clean the primer pockets. You also want a good case trimmer because it is next to impossible to get a good consistent crimp with cases that are different lengths. And even if you do, changing the case length changes the head spacing in a semi-auto pistol. You don't need an expensive caliper, but one that reads the same each time you use it. Digital is not necessary, but it can help if you have bad eyes, or get sloppy and don't see that the slider was reading 1.1 instead of 1.2 when the dial read 0.065. Consistency is also why I keep dippers around. While MOST of the powders that I use throw very consistently from a powder measure, some (like the IMR stick powders) throw far more consistently from a dipper.
Well, that is about enough of this ramble for now. Hope it helps. |
Those who beat their swords into plows will plow for those who do not. |
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vgun
Starting Member
USA
25 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2010 : 11:06:02
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Tumbler--I have a Harbor freight one that works great but it's loud. Last year when our local Sportsmans Warehouse went out of business I picked up a Lyman turbo tumbler for $30. It's huge and quiet and works great.
Dies--most of mine are RCBS and Redding--I only load pistol at this time. I have some Lee dies including one of the crimp dies for 38/357.
I had bad luck with that--the first time I used it it seemed to work ok. After that it would really tear up cases and if I backed it off it wouldn't crimp enough. I called Lee--which took a few days because the line was always busy and when I finally talked to a dude he said back off the die. He was pretty abrupt and did not help me at all and I do not use the Lee crimp die any longer
Scale--RCBS 505. I use the powder dippers to get the charge close then use a RCBS powder trickler to get the charge exact.
Calipers--I have 2 or 3 of the Harbor freight digital ones. They work great. I also have a pair of the manual ones (forget the brand--but they are high quality)that I only use to make sure that the Harbor freight ones are accurate and they always are.
Cleaning media.--I use a mixture of 1/2 corn cob litter and 1/2 walnut shell.
I get the walnut at petsmart--sold as lizard litter.
For the corn cob litter--I have a feed supply store where I get bird seed and squirrel food. Last year I found out that they sell corn cob litter for $8 for 25 lbs--25 lbs is a lot of corn cob LOL
They sell small and large size corn cob and the small size is the size that the gun stores sell for a lot more money
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DCR
Junior Member
USA
100 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2010 : 11:20:17
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I've just set up my reloading bench and I'm a complete noob at it myself. I've only done some dummy rounds for reload training and to get a feel for how everything works without having primers/powder involved.
Richard Lee's Modern Reloading Second Edition book is great for answering lots of questions.
I just got the 4 piece set for reloading .45's. I'm not sure if you need the crimping die or not. I used it in my dummy rounds for an extra snug bullet.
I use the Frankford Arsenal Quick-n-ez tumbler. $53 at midwayusa.com. I also use lizard litter from the local pet store. It's $10 a bag. Think it was 10 pound bag.
I've got a caliper from cabela's I've used for quite a few years. It's not digital but it gets the job done.
I have the RCBS scale but I'm thinking about switching to the Lee Perfect powder measurer and get a set of scoops.
I alse have a single stage press. I originally bought it for reloading .223 but the rifle purchase fell through and I haven't got back around to wanting so shoot a rifle until just recently. I think the single stage will be fine to start with. If I end up needing to reload thousands of rounds a week I'll start thinking about a progressive. But, I don't see that happening. 500 a month is about all I'll end up reloading for the 45.
Hope this helps.
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Chris_T
Senior Member
1903 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2010 : 12:18:31
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quote:
Originally posted by DCR
I have the RCBS scale but I'm thinking about switching to the Lee Perfect powder measurer and get a set of scoops.
I alse have a single stage press. I originally bought it for reloading .223 but the rifle purchase fell through and I haven't got back around to wanting so shoot a rifle until just recently. I think the single stage will be fine to start with. If I end up needing to reload thousands of rounds a week I'll start thinking about a progressive. But, I don't see that happening. 500 a month is about all I'll end up reloading for the 45.
Stay with the single stage until you get VERY familiar with reloading. You probably will find that a single stage is plenty of press for your needs.
The powder measure is not a replacement for a good scale. Thats worth repeating..................
THE POWDER MEASURE IS NOT A REPLACEMENT FOR A GOOD SCALE |
"A government strong enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have"
---Thomas Jefferson
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."
--Robert A. Heinlein
"Remember democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide."
-- John Adams |
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emrah
Average Member
941 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2010 : 13:53:57
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What others have said...
And to expand on why there are 4-die sets, it's mainly useful for loading lead bullets. For example, when I do .45 ACP, I can just size the case, load the powder then simply load the bullets and seat them - IF IT'S A JACKETED BULLET!!! The jacket is usually tough enough that you don't need to expand the mouth first, then crimp.
However, if you plan on using lead bullets (and I do), you MUST expand the case mouth, then load, then taper crimp. Otherwise you will shave off a slim layer of lead while trying to seat the bullet. This will turn your nice .452" diameter bullet into a .451" or .450". This will not seal the expanding gas completely and the gas will blow past the bullet while still in the barrel and smear off (melt off) a layer of lead and deposit it in the barrel; major leading problems. It will also not allow the bullet to fully engage the rifling and spin properly so accuracy will suffer (or majorly suck).
I learned the above-mentioned lesson the hard way.
Emrah
P.S. And the reason why they give you a scoop I'm guessing this is a Lee Loader) is they've decided a "good" and safe charge using a particular bullet, using a particular powder that will "work" for everyone. Work up your own loads using a proper scale (I havce the RCBS 505 balance beam and would never use anything else) and leave the dipper for emergencies. |
"I haven't yet done everything, but by the time I'm finished, I won't have missed much. If I auger in tomorrow, it won't be with a frown on my face. I've had a ball."
- Gen. Chuck Yeager
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sidroski
Advanced Member
USA
2268 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2010 : 20:30:04
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| Thanks Emrah and the rest of you guys. For the money, I'm using it to learn the sport but will move up once I'm confindent (seen to many guns explode from to much powder or a squib load guy didn't catch). Baby steps for now and I appreciate the info. See what I like before I drop high dollars on a progressive. |
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DCR
Junior Member
USA
100 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2010 : 13:38:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Chris_T
quote:
Originally posted by DCR
I have the RCBS scale but I'm thinking about switching to the Lee Perfect powder measurer and get a set of scoops.
I alse have a single stage press. I originally bought it for reloading .223 but the rifle purchase fell through and I haven't got back around to wanting so shoot a rifle until just recently. I think the single stage will be fine to start with. If I end up needing to reload thousands of rounds a week I'll start thinking about a progressive. But, I don't see that happening. 500 a month is about all I'll end up reloading for the 45.
Stay with the single stage until you get VERY familiar with reloading. You probably will find that a single stage is plenty of press for your needs.
The powder measure is not a replacement for a good scale. Thats worth repeating..................
THE POWDER MEASURE IS NOT A REPLACEMENT FOR A GOOD SCALE
Thanks for the reminder, Chris. I have an RCBS Uniflow at the moment. I check every throw with the scale. Come to think of it. I'm not sure why i'd need to get the Lee one if I already have the RCBS. 
Dave |
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ridurall
Advanced Member
USA
5396 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2010 : 18:05:28
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| I use my Lyman 1200 automatic powder scale and it works for everything from .22 centerfire to 50 BMG. I've not been able to find a powder measure that will throw a charge big enough for a 50 BMG. Most of mine are 218 to 224 gr charges for it. |
I'm Ron & I'm carrying Kimber Ultra Carry II In a Crossbreed IWB holster. NRA Life member since 1983.
"The thing that separates the American Christian from every other person on earth is the fact that he would rather die on his feet, than live on his knees!" George Washington
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lwknight
Senior Member
USA
1352 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2010 : 06:44:13
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You don't get much out of a pound of powder that way.
My RCBS du-flo drops about 125 grain charges. You can double drop. |
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ridurall
Advanced Member
USA
5396 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2010 : 22:53:35
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| I figure that if I measure each load I can't do better for consistancy. |
I'm Ron & I'm carrying Kimber Ultra Carry II In a Crossbreed IWB holster. NRA Life member since 1983.
"The thing that separates the American Christian from every other person on earth is the fact that he would rather die on his feet, than live on his knees!" George Washington
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AA BEAR
New Member
USA
99 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2010 : 23:22:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Chris_T
quote:
Originally posted by DCR
I have the RCBS scale but I'm thinking about switching to the Lee Perfect powder measurer and get a set of scoops.
I alse have a single stage press. I originally bought it for reloading .223 but the rifle purchase fell through and I haven't got back around to wanting so shoot a rifle until just recently. I think the single stage will be fine to start with. If I end up needing to reload thousands of rounds a week I'll start thinking about a progressive. But, I don't see that happening. 500 a month is about all I'll end up reloading for the 45.
Stay with the single stage until you get VERY familiar with reloading. You probably will find that a single stage is plenty of press for your needs.
The powder measure is not a replacement for a good scale. Thats worth repeating..................
THE POWDER MEASURE IS NOT A REPLACEMENT FOR A GOOD SCALE
I like the 3 & 4 hole loader by LEE. Set your dies one time and go if loading for diffrent CAL buy extray turrets. == Good Luck |
A man that loves guns Big & Small & Longe & Short. X NAVY 375 D. W. 357 D. W. Max S&W 460 454 C |
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thumbs
Starting Member
22 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2010 : 19:23:40
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| In reguards to media. I was lookin at the Harbour Freight walnut stuff. Do you guys use the course or fine media? |
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Chris_T
Senior Member
1903 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2010 : 21:52:41
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| I've got the fine media from Harbor Freight. |
"A government strong enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have"
---Thomas Jefferson
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."
--Robert A. Heinlein
"Remember democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide."
-- John Adams |
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thumbs
Starting Member
22 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2010 : 22:00:14
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| Thanks Chris-T |
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PointFourFive
Starting Member
11 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2010 : 18:04:23
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+1 on the Lee factory crimp dies. I bought one for .270, tried it once, and now own one for every caliber I reload. As many have mentioned, consistency is key in handloading, and the FCDs will give you the same crimp, round after round, without necessarily having to trim cases to the same length (still a good idea though).
I'm also a big fan of the Lee dies in general. I have some RCBS, some Hornady, and a few of the Lees. In my humble opinion, the Lees are easier to set up and adjust, and they are usually a little less expensive than other brands.
I also agree that a good scale is paramount. Even if you are using a powder measure, you will need a quality scale to find the right charge weight and check your throws OFTEN. If you are just starting out in reloading, I also agree that the single stage press is the way to go. It might take longer to reload then with a progressive, but you will really get to know the process, and you are far less likely to miss a primer, over/under/miss a charge, and so forth. Under or missed charges can be very dangerous - the primer will create just enough pressure to send the bullet into the barrel a little bit, but usually not all the way out. If you don't catch it and charge/fire another round you will ruin your gun and possibly yourself.
Just my two cents... |
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thumbs
Starting Member
22 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2010 : 19:03:27
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Does anyone own the Lee adjustable power"disk" for the lee disk powder measure? Just wondering how low a charge it will deliver. It's states the charges in CC rather than grains. Also how well do they work? Just wondering if it may be worth it for charges less than 3grains.
thanks |
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AA BEAR
New Member
USA
99 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2010 : 21:16:07
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quote:
Originally posted by thumbs
In reguards to media. I was lookin at the Harbour Freight walnut stuff. Do you guys use the course or fine media?
I have two tumblers one course and one fine.This will make cleaning faster.I like the one that Lyman has 600 110 volt=== Good luck === |
A man that loves guns Big & Small & Longe & Short. X NAVY 375 D. W. 357 D. W. Max S&W 460 454 C |
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Lee dies
