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hillsmi
Starting Member
USA
24 Posts |
 Posted - 06/27/2010 : 09:16:16
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This may not be the best area for this post, maybe under another discussion group, but I chose this one.
I would like to hear from those of you who have spoken with your pastors and / or clergy about carrying in your place(s) of worship.
Firstly, here in MI, it is illegal to carry in a place of worship, unless you have the permission of the pastor(s).
In my church, our pastors are, for the most part, considered conservative. The associate pastor is a yearly hunter, and the head pastor is not necessarily a hunter, does own a firearm, but does not carry.
I would like some guidance from those of you who have spoken with, been considering, or been successful in speaking with your pastors or clergy in asking for and been successful in obtaining permission to carry in your place of worship.
To my knowledge, in our church, we have one retired LEO, and I'm almost certain he does not exercise his right to carry, whether in church or not. I'm almost certain that I am the only person in our congregation of just under 200, of about which 45-50 are minor children in the ages of birth to 19, which has a CPL.
There are two church members who do not have a CPL, but both have a personal arsenal at their residences, and there are maybe a dozen church members who are hunters. So there are many conservatives within our church.
I happen to be the sound person at our church, and sit in the back and with a slightly elevated position over the congregation behind a 4' wall, and have a view of both entrances into the sanctuary. And unfortunately, if an attacker did enter the sanctuary, the congregation would have to exit through one of the two doors that the attacker entered.
In viewing the statistics on a couple of websites, I have not come across any incidents in MI churches, but the statistics are present throughout the country within the past 10 years, with over 200 people losing their lives from violence in places of worhip, or on said property.
If you were considering carrying in church, or already do, and it was required of you to obtain your pastor's permission, how did you approach this issue, word your stand, if you provided any statistics. And, were you successful, how did the discussion go. Did they take the time to listen, or immediately shut you off when the discussion gave evidence that it was pointing to you carrying in church?
I carry better than 95% of the time everywhere else. I am not a gun-freak. I do not have a weapon in every room of my home, etc. I carry for the protection of myself and loved ones in the unfortunate event that it may someday be required, though I pray I never have to. I can carry during my work duties, due to the fact that I am a subcontractor, and am not limited by rules or regulations of an employer.
So, if you can assist me in my goal, for lack of a better word, to obtain permission to carry in church, I would appreciate how you approached the issue.
Thank you. |
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KeysGuy
Senior Member
USA
1607 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2010 : 09:37:49
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I am of no use, but Grace & Trueth and PressPass among others should be along shortly with helpful information.  |
Keys Guy
One thing we can learn from history is we do not learn from history.
Best way to win a gun fight? "That's easy, don't show up for it." -------Wyatt Earp 1920 |
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dsims
Senior Member
USA
1175 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2010 : 09:43:44
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| I would simply talk with your pastor and respectfully ask for permission. Assure him that it will remain concealed at all times. Explain to him that during your years on earth you've found it's better to have a gun and not need it than to need one and not have it. |
It's better to have a gun on you and not need one, than to need one and not have one on you! |
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mattinglyt
Watchdog
USA
10040 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2010 : 11:35:44
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| I am in MI and carry at my church. I'll give you a longer response when I'm not typing on my phone. |
Ted Mattingly
US ARMY BORN AND BRED
NRA LIFE MEMBER
45ACP - THE LORDS ROUND OF CHOICE
"My Soldier can pick your honor student off at a Klik and a Half" (Bumper Sticker)
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mattinglyt
Watchdog
USA
10040 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2010 : 15:10:04
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OK, we're home now, so I can dedicate some time to my response.
First off, our pastor is my wifes uncle, so I was very worried about the uneasy tension it might create by asking for his permission to carry, especially if he said no.
I asked him to come over for a one on one conversation when he had time. When he came over, I happen to be working on my truck and we started a basic conversation on general church topics. We're a very young church and we happen to be talking about building setup and such. I asked him what he thought about the church security and how we might be able to help things a little.
From there I just kind of spilled the beans and let him know that I had prayed and thought about the very question. I asked what his views on concealed carry were. He was pretty open about it, he's never been much of a gun guy or hunter, but he's come out to the family cabin a time or two during deer season.
I asked what he thought about my carrying concealed in church and informed him of the MI law about it. I told him I was concerned for my families and my safety with the recent church shootings and that I didn't like the extra "handling" of my gun when I had to disarm in the parking lot. Reasons being, there was more of a chance for people to see the gun and then there was a gun locked up in my truck which didn't make me feel good for two reasons. One - locks keep honest people honest and two - my gun is in my truck if something happens.
Thankfully, he fully agreed with me about keeping it underwraps and he mentioned that he had worried about things happening in the church. He said he would feel better knowing that someone there carried. He asked me to make sure nobody would ever see it. I asked if he saw it now and he was suprised to find out that I was carrying and he never noticed it.
It's now been at least two years and he's come up to me a couple of times and asked about it "so do you have you know what". All I'd say is something like "yup, got my underwear on today", LOL.
All I can say in your situation is to have your facts straight, and be sure of what you want to say then ask it. Don't beat around the question too much. If it's going to happen, it will, if not, I'd try and find another place to worship. Yes, I'd leave if it came to it. |
Ted Mattingly
US ARMY BORN AND BRED
NRA LIFE MEMBER
45ACP - THE LORDS ROUND OF CHOICE
"My Soldier can pick your honor student off at a Klik and a Half" (Bumper Sticker)
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Presspass
Armed & Dangerous
USA
7197 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2010 : 15:28:06
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I'm not sure I can help you that much. My pastor is my Dad. He carries too  .
I work the sound too, and sit in back too with a better view/overview of the auditorium. We have security at our church, both inside the building and in the parking lot. But with or without permisssion, with or without security, I would be packing. My Daddy is up there, my mother, my son, and my husband are in the building.
I carry with permission in a gun friendly state. But this is one of those situations that I would willingly accept the punishment. Everything I cherish is in that building. I would gladly sacrifice my freedom and, if it ever comes down to it, my life to keep them safe. |
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tooofick
Starting Member
1 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2010 : 23:36:57
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My Dad is a Pastor like the above poster.
My mom is not thrilled about the idea of me carrying in the church, but understands the necessity. Ok back to the topic.
We are a smaller church, run about 225 on Sundays and there are about 5 of us who pack. The Pastor(my Dad) think it's great! He doesn't own a gun and has only shot mine less than 50rounds, but he understands that "when guns are outlawed, only outlaws have gunned."
Also, logically speaking..in the offering there could be a few thousand dollars, if crap hit the fan, someone better be packing!
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yankeejib
Average Member
USA
682 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2010 : 10:38:27
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| I carry at church twice a week. I've played out the scenarios, and in fact have secured the proper seat in the choir loft to have a position that minimizes congregation in my line of sight if some whack-job hijacks services. That's the main problem I have with carry at church. FWIW, I don't discuss weapons with anyone at church. I don't ask, tell, or discuss them with anyone anywhere other than here, the wife, and a few shooting buddies. Concealed is concealed, and the element of surprise is my friend. I don't know if there's really a God and Hell or not, but you'll be first to find out if you do something stupid in my church. I don't like interruptions. |
Sincerely,
Professor Stu Padasol
"Doing what others find difficult is talent. Doing what others find impossible is genius."
"Why be difficult when with a little more effort, you can be entirely impossible."
I carry a gun because I can't throw a rock 1250 feet per second.
God did not make create all men equal, Sam Colt did.
"The next best thing to being clever is being able to quote someone who is." |
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Some carefully worded assistance please...
