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cbhvac
Advanced Member
USA
6030 Posts |
 Posted - 01/17/2012 : 11:01:50
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How about....a 1 inch wide, .45?
Yup...as much as I hate to admit it, (I like SA, HATE the XD-m) I might have to get one....
haters gonna hate....so...hate on...but the bar has been raised, and no one is close.
http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/springfield-armory-xds/
Springfield Armory
http://www.springfield-armory.com
(note that new XDS micro-site coming soon)
So far the biggest story I have seen at SHOT Show 2012 is the XDS from Springfield Armory. It is a single stack .45ACP that holds 5 rounds in the magazine and 1 in the chamber. The barrel is 3.3 inches, and the overall length is 6.3 inches. It is only one inch thick. Empty the XDS weighs 29 ounces, and it is a striker fired pistol in the tradition of the XD and XD(M), with a polymer frame and forged steel slide.
I don’t know how many times we need to say that Springfield Armory is always raising the bar, but Springfield Armory is always raising the bar. Last year at SHOT Show about a half a dozen companies came out with single stack 9mm ultra-compacts. Over the past year they have all come into the market, with mixed reviews on most (our favorite was by far the Walther PPS). This year some of those guns have now been released in .40S&W, and it is common for 9mm and .40S&W to share the same frame in pistols. But when you want to make a pistol that small in a .45ACP, you have to go back to square one and make a whole new gun, and that is what Springfield Armory did.
I have had three small .45ACP guns over the years and carried them daily at different times in my life. The two i used the most were the AMT Backup .45 in a double action only, and the Para P-10, which is a double stack 1911 with a two finger grip. Both guns are steel, and what they both share (yes i still have them) is that when you fire them, you feel like your whole world comes unglued and you are just holding on for dear life. Likewise a compact 1911 I had for a while. In a small gun, the .45 ACP is a hand cannon, and I have always thought that it probably just wasn’t suited for a pocket sized gun, even though i insisted on carrying one. Gun guys don’t always make a lot of sense.
Shooting the XDS has changed my opinion on ultra-compact .45 ACP forever though. As I stepped to the line to shoot it today, I cringed to think of what I was going to experience shooting a .45 ACP in a light polymer pistol. Was i going to drop it? Then I shot the gun, and that whole unglued thing isn’t there. In fact it isn’t even unpleasant to shoot. George Whebby, who you will see in the video we did today for the gun, said the same thing. You expect an unpleasant recoil and muzzle flip, but there is none to be found. We both had to shoot it again just to be more aware of the actual ergonomics of the gun, instead of just bracing for unpleasant recoil. Don’t get me wrong, .45 ACP in a small gun is still a handful, but there is a difference between very manageable the barely manageable I had expected. The XDS is very manageable.
This leads me to think that the XDS is potentially the first truly engineered .45 ACP ultra-compact. My AMT Backup was made by a company that didn’t make it and was eventually liquidated. The P-10 is just a P-14 with a shorter magazine well. Neither gun was engineered in a cad cam world by computer modelers to estimate what the shot dynamics of the firearm would before it is ever brought to become an actual product. The XDS was engineered for the .45ACP, and from what I am told from Springfield, the resulting XDS we hold today far exceeded their expectations. The XDS is night and day with those old steel .45 ACP pocket pistols. The XDS is nothing short of a game changer.
You are probably already familiar with the XD and XD(M) pistols from Springfield, and though this gun has everything in a much tinier package, you lose almost nothing from a usability standpoint with the XDS. All that is really missing is a striker cocked indicator in the back, and of course there are less bullets in a single stack magazine than in the double stack magazines of the XD and XD(M). Otherwise all of the features on the gun are the same as the full sized guns (though the parts are not at all interchangeable). The grip texturing, the magazine release, the feel of the slide, and the grip safety are all the same as the full size XD and XD(M) guns.
If you have been looking for the ideal gun for concealed carry in a front pocket or inside the pants holster, I have to admit that this gun has most likely changed my vote for the best gun. As late as two weeks ago i convinced someone who had been set on a semi-auto that a revolver was the way to go for front pocket carry, but I’m not so sure anymore. This gun is like carrying a fire breathing dragon, but with a bridle and saddle so it does what you want when you want it. It is tiny, light, and extremely resistant to corrosion due to the polymer frame and the a Melonite salt bath nitriding process on the steel that never breaks down. A .38 Special revolver just isn’t in this class, nor is a .380 or 9mm pistol.
This gun was kept a complete secret until today at SHOT Show Media Day at the Range, so we didn’t get an advance gun to test, but hopefully we’ll get one soon and put it through its paces. I watched world champion shooter Rob Leatham shoot it for our video today at 10 yards on 4 inch wide plates, three magazines in a row, and he never missed. The XD(M) guns are scary accurate, and I suspect that this XDS is going to be much the same. Springfield has got some world class firearm engineers working on their guns and as we have said many times here at the GunsAmerica Blog, they are second to none, regardless of price. I expect this gun will be a huge hit, and stay tuned to see if a bigger story at SHOT Show 2012 comes up, but I think the most memorable gun this year is going to be the Springfield Armory XDS.
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"This democracy of ours which sometimes we've treated so lightly, is more than ever a comfortable cloak, so let us not tear it asunder, for no man knows once it is destroyed where or when he will find its protective warmth again." --Ronald Reagan
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Buck
Senior Member
1041 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2012 : 12:01:26
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| Very interesting. Looks nice. I just wish they would've made the grip just a hair longer to allow for maybe 7 + 1 capacity. I can't wait to see one live. |
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dupree
Junior Member
USA
112 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2012 : 12:17:10
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Looks Great! I'm excited to see this offering from Springfield.
But "the bar has been raised, and no one is close," I'm not totally sure about that. Glock has had the 36 for years. Which is essentially the same width, holds an extra round over the XDS, and weighs less fully loaded than this thing does empty. Sounds like Glock did this years before Springfield, and still did it better (for my needs anyways)... The main thing the XDS seems to have going for it is the shorter grip, which could lend itself to pocket carry better than the G36. But at nearly 30oz empty? Sounds a bit difficult.
I love the XD series and I would love to own one (just like I would love to own many other XD's), but they just never have quite enough going for them to beat out competing firearms, at least for my personal needs. |
Glock 36
S&W Model 642
Glock 19
XD .40 Sub-Compact
Smith & Wesson M&P9 |
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Tigershack
Junior Member
329 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2012 : 13:26:41
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Agree with Dupree...the G36 has been out for awhile. I love mine; not as easy to hold and fire as a 1911, but it is what it is.
The reviewer here does make note that this new SA offering does quite a lot w/r to controlling recoil. I would be very interested in seeing how it feels relative to my G36. I do like the gun's dimensions. |
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Tigershack
Junior Member
329 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2012 : 14:02:21
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A quick comparison, XDS vs G36
length.................. 6.3"....7.0"
height.................. 4.4"....4.8"
width................... 1.0"....1.1"
barrel length...........3.3"....3.8"
weight (unloaded)...29oz....20.1oz
capacity.................5+1....6+1
Is that extra 9 or so ounces for a shock/recoil absorbing function?
I am interested.... |
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adrstout
Average Member
USA
909 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2012 : 16:33:09
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| I have owned 2 and like XDs. I think this looks like a great little pistol. With the option of a 7 round mag in addition to the 5 rounder, it would be a perfect carry pistol. Pocket carry may be a stretch but with the right pants and belt it woud certainly be doable. |
Adam in Indiana
Lover of guns, knives, dogs, and the outdoors. |
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cbhvac
Advanced Member
USA
6030 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2012 : 19:53:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Tigershack
A quick comparison, XDS vs G36
length.................. 6.3"....7.0"
height.................. 4.4"....4.8"
width................... 1.0"....1.1"
barrel length...........3.3"....3.8"
weight (unloaded)...29oz....20.1oz
capacity.................5+1....6+1
Is that extra 9 or so ounces for a shock/recoil absorbing function?
I am interested....
I understand what Depree means...but it IS smaller, it has enough rounds for most of us...and from what I can gather, as you and others state, the recoil isnt even close what you would expect.....so in THAT regard alone, yea....the bars been raised.
Its simple physics ....and if 9oz makes that much of a difference, so be it, and like I said in another thread, who cares really?
Ill start another thread, about something I heard yet again tonight, firsthand, from someone that has been there...in a SD shooting..and how a few oz, wont matter...
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"This democracy of ours which sometimes we've treated so lightly, is more than ever a comfortable cloak, so let us not tear it asunder, for no man knows once it is destroyed where or when he will find its protective warmth again." --Ronald Reagan
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Jim1911a1
Junior Member
USA
337 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2012 : 22:17:03
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| ill pass on this one. 5+1? Im good. |
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dupree
Junior Member
USA
112 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2012 : 22:26:04
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quote:
Originally posted by cbhvac
quote:
Originally posted by Tigershack
A quick comparison, XDS vs G36
length.................. 6.3"....7.0"
height.................. 4.4"....4.8"
width................... 1.0"....1.1"
barrel length...........3.3"....3.8"
weight (unloaded)...29oz....20.1oz
capacity.................5+1....6+1
Is that extra 9 or so ounces for a shock/recoil absorbing function?
I am interested....
I understand what Depree means...but it IS smaller, it has enough rounds for most of us...and from what I can gather, as you and others state, the recoil isnt even close what you would expect.....so in THAT regard alone, yea....the bars been raised.
Its simple physics ....and if 9oz makes that much of a difference, so be it, and like I said in another thread, who cares really?
Ill start another thread, about something I heard yet again tonight, firsthand, from someone that has been there...in a SD shooting..and how a few oz, wont matter...
Yeah, totally get that. Don't get me wrong, I'm pumped to see Springfield jumping in strong with this one. Also glad to see them putting out a something in .45, when everyone else out there is doing the 'pocket 9mm' thing right now.
I guess it might be because I'm a pretty skinny guy, but I find that even a little weight makes a huge difference to me. But yeah, it is a little smaller. I definitely want it, i just wish it were enough to make me need it. |
Glock 36
S&W Model 642
Glock 19
XD .40 Sub-Compact
Smith & Wesson M&P9 |
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cbhvac
Advanced Member
USA
6030 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2012 : 08:25:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Jim1911a1
ill pass on this one. 5+1? Im good.
If they follow in true XD fashion, there will be a "full size" mag to give a bit more grip and 2 extra rounds...besides..my 1911 I have been DC lately only carries the same amount of 45..to each his own.
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"This democracy of ours which sometimes we've treated so lightly, is more than ever a comfortable cloak, so let us not tear it asunder, for no man knows once it is destroyed where or when he will find its protective warmth again." --Ronald Reagan
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bralko85
Junior Member
USA
343 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2012 : 09:18:43
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| Now it's S&W's turn. Without shooting it, I like the XDS over the G36, but a single stack M&P would take the cake. |
"The difference between death and taxes is that death doesn't get worse every time Congress meets." |
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LWP
Junior Member
USA
114 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2012 : 11:43:42
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| Typical hype/advertising blog. Let's see how it performs, real world. Kahr has had this for a few years, proven reliable, less weight, longer barrel, one more bullet, and your pinky fits on the grip. My similar CW9 conceals without effort. But still, I am happy to see the trend toward CONCEALABLE pistols. |
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Jinxy
Junior Member
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2012 : 17:14:12
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| I watched a video of a guy shooting this gun. Didn't look bad at all! I'm very interested in this pistol but have the feeling that it will be harder than hell to obtain when it comes out! Only thing i don't like on these guns are the loaded chamber indicators on top of the slide. I wish they would just use the same concept Glock does. I still would purchase one! I'm guestimating it will be around 575-625 range in price |
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cbhvac
Advanced Member
USA
6030 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2012 : 19:40:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Jinxy
I watched a video of a guy shooting this gun. Didn't look bad at all! I'm very interested in this pistol but have the feeling that it will be harder than hell to obtain when it comes out! Only thing i don't like on these guns are the loaded chamber indicators on top of the slide. I wish they would just use the same concept Glock does. I still would purchase one! I'm guestimating it will be around 575-625 range in price
The loaded chamber indicator is part of a two part, one sweep, know its ready to fire motion. IT also does not drag, or catch when drawing. If, and I know a few who didnt like it, IF you really want to remove it, its a simple matter of using a drift punch to remove the pin, and either removal of the entire indicator, or, a little dremel work to remove enough that when the chamber is loaded, the indicator is not pressed up....if you remove it however, getting that damn spring back in is a biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiitch.
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"This democracy of ours which sometimes we've treated so lightly, is more than ever a comfortable cloak, so let us not tear it asunder, for no man knows once it is destroyed where or when he will find its protective warmth again." --Ronald Reagan
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Nathan
Big Sky Guy
USA
21633 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2012 : 19:47:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Jinxy
I wish they would just use the same concept Glock does.
+1. glocks loaded chamber indicator is the best available today. with your trigger finger in the proper ready position, its just a quick finger swipe away. you dont need two hands or proper lighting, just raise your trigger finger a little from the ready position and you know its ready to go, even in the dark. |
Nathan In Montana, carrying a Gen4 Glock 19 loaded with Federal 147 grain +P JHPs carried in a Galco King Tuk thats worn on a Wilderness Instructor's belt.
NRA Certified Instructor, Rifle, Shotgun and Pistol
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Nathan
Big Sky Guy
USA
21633 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2012 : 19:50:43
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| i think this is a fine addition to springfields line. i wont be buying one anytime soon unless they did something to the awful XD marshmellow trigger, but im glad to see they finally understand that a concealed carry gun should be thin. im sure this will be a big success for them. |
Nathan In Montana, carrying a Gen4 Glock 19 loaded with Federal 147 grain +P JHPs carried in a Galco King Tuk thats worn on a Wilderness Instructor's belt.
NRA Certified Instructor, Rifle, Shotgun and Pistol
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graceandtruth
Average Member
761 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2012 : 06:33:17
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| A great idea, and basically necessary to add to the XD line in this self-defense gun climate....but, what you gain in the fact that it is thinner you certainly lose in round capacity. Personally, I would rather have my firearm be slightly thicker and have TWICE the round capacity. |
-G&T
G23 |
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JazzBass
Starting Member
34 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2012 : 13:19:56
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| WOW...sounds like a hand canon..... |
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FishingBack
Average Member
643 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2012 : 09:03:53
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Is there a trigger difference between the XDM and classic XD?
I know the M has insignificant upgrades but has anybody shot the two side by side?
I do hope they changed the out-of-the-box trigger on the new XDS. |
"Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself! They are the American people's Liberty Teeth and keystone under Independence. From the hour the Pilgrims landed, to the present day, events, occurrences, and tendencies prove that to insure peace, security, and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere, restrains evil interference -- they deserve a place of honor with all that's good!"
--President George Washington, in a speech to Congress. 7 January, 1790 |
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LandonJ
Advanced Member
USA
6375 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2012 : 09:33:29
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| I got to play with this for ten minutes at the SHOT show. I must say, I do like the size, and it is nearly a pocket-size 45 like the Kahr PM45, and it may even be within millimiters of it, but I just can't get over the fact that the triggers plain suck on the XD line of pistols. With its 5 round capacity, I won't be jumping through hoops and bounds to get one. I've decided if I'm going to carry a single-stack .45 that it better be a product of the JMB design. Will this be a great gun for tens of thousands of people? Absolutely! You just won't see me doing a new gun review on it. Great job Springfield XD, you are finally competing in the polymer pistol market! |
"You are only out-gunned if you miss." -Jeff Cooper
Amatuers train until they get it right. Professionals train until they get it wrong.
NRA Life Member
NRA Certified Instructor
Utah CFP Instructor
USMC veteran
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YooperTrav
Average Member
USA
785 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2012 : 10:06:38
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| id love to shoot one of these. My sub compact XD40 is probably the most reliable handgun I own, outside of my GI 1911. Springfield makes quality guns and I really like the grip safety. I love Glock's quality as well, but that grip safety is important to me. |
GOD BLESS AMERICA
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Chris_T
Moderator
USA
2878 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2012 : 10:48:09
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quote:
Originally posted by LandonJ
I won't be jumping through hoops and bounds to get one.
Your only problem with this gun is that its not a M&P you slut!  |
This post may contain opinions that are not intended to be popular. 
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither" - Benjamin Franklin. |
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cbhvac
Advanced Member
USA
6030 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2012 : 09:18:13
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quote:
Originally posted by FishingBack
Is there a trigger difference between the XDM and classic XD?
I know the M has insignificant upgrades but has anybody shot the two side by side?
I do hope they changed the out-of-the-box trigger on the new XDS.
The M series has a better trigger, but in all honesty, I prefer the XD over the Glocks I have owned..but thats ME..
The M series was called the best in class trigger for a while..
No matter to me now...Im getting out of the poly pistol market completely. Once I sell off the two XDs I have now, I wont own another. Going to sell off most of what I have now, with the exception of three pistols and two rifles and two shotguns..after that, thats all I need. |
"This democracy of ours which sometimes we've treated so lightly, is more than ever a comfortable cloak, so let us not tear it asunder, for no man knows once it is destroyed where or when he will find its protective warmth again." --Ronald Reagan
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Robert357
Junior Member
USA
470 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2012 : 16:30:12
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quote:
Originally posted by cbhvac
How about....a 1 inch wide, .45?
...The barrel is 3.3 inches, and the overall length is 6.3 inches. It is only one inch thick. Empty the XDS weighs 29 ounces, and it is a striker fired pistol in the tradition of the XD and XD(M), with a polymer frame and forged steel slide.
...I have had three small .45ACP guns over the years and carried them daily at different times in my life. The two i used the most were the AMT Backup .45 in a double action only, and the Para P-10, which is a double stack 1911 with a two finger grip. ...Likewise a compact 1911 I had for a while. In a small gun, the .45 ACP is a hand cannon....
...This leads me to think that the XDS is potentially the first truly engineered .45 ACP ultra-compact. My AMT Backup was made by a company that didn’t make it and was eventually liquidated. The P-10 is just a P-14 with a shorter magazine well. Neither gun was engineered in a cad cam world by computer modelers to estimate what the shot dynamics of the firearm would before it is ever brought to become an actual product. The XDS was engineered for the .45ACP, and from what I am told from Springfield, the resulting XDS we hold today far exceeded their expectations. The XDS is night and day with those old steel .45 ACP pocket pistols. The XDS is nothing short of a game changer.
...If you have been looking for the ideal gun for concealed carry in a front pocket or inside the pants holster, I have to admit that this gun has most likely changed my vote for the best gun. As late as two weeks ago i convinced someone who had been set on a semi-auto that a revolver was the way to go for front pocket carry, but I’m not so sure anymore.
First thank you for the product review and information. I really do appreciate it.
I am going to have to look at one.
As someone who is into pocket carrry, I like subcompact handguns. However, I learned after I purchased my AMT .45 Backup, that weight can also be an issue, expecially when I wear dress pants with an narrow dress-belt. At 29 oz empty that is a lot of weight pulling down on your pants, even if it is fairly small.
Again, based on your review, I will definately take a look at it and it is nice to know that the recoil is more acceptable, but weight may keep it from truly being the king of pocket guns.
Right now there is a KelTec PF-9 in a DeSantis holster in my front pocket. For me that is probably as large and heavy as I am comfortable going with pocket carry, unless I shift to jeans/cargo pants or put on some suspenders. Then I have things that include: a Taurus snub nose .357 Mag DA revolver, a snub nose Astra .44 Rem Mag Terminator DA revolver, and my ATM .45 Backup and my light weight PF-9. |
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LandonJ
Advanced Member
USA
6375 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2012 : 17:10:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Chris_T
quote:
Originally posted by LandonJ
I won't be jumping through hoops and bounds to get one.
Your only problem with this gun is that its not a M&P you slut!
Or that it's made in Crotia?  |
"You are only out-gunned if you miss." -Jeff Cooper
Amatuers train until they get it right. Professionals train until they get it wrong.
NRA Life Member
NRA Certified Instructor
Utah CFP Instructor
USMC veteran
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ram229
Junior Member
USA
347 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2012 : 20:08:24
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I read the title of this thread and got excited. Then I was confused a little. What bar did they raise? I like the XD platform just fine. The one I had worked perfect but I am not sure this "raises the bar" of anything except maybe that of what the XD platform has been. Glock and Kahr have already been there and done that. And even though I am not a fan of Taurus, they make a "micro" size 45 acp pistol that holds 10+1.
I am not trying to start an argument with anyone but to me it just seems like SA has FINALLY entered the XD into a market it should have been in a long time ago with the XD. |
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SA raises the bar to a new level..the XDS
