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notjaglock
Starting Member
USA
18 Posts |
 Posted - 03/06/2012 : 19:08:43
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Does anyone own one of these or know anything about them? I was in my local gun store and saw this model on sale for $499.
It is a 1911 model with a skelatonized trigger and hammer and has the 5" barrel and wood grips as well.
The slide ran smooth and the trigger pull was crisp just like most 1911s. What reviews I have read seemed to say good things about them. Any thoughts? |
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zonker1986
Advanced Member
USA
8191 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2012 : 21:05:00
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The Commander has a 4" barrel not 5". I picked up the full size two years ago and its been a very nice gun for what I paid. Very good slide to frame fit. Personally, I'd save up the extra $300 and get a Springfield Loaded Champion if you are going to pay $500. I only paid $365 for mine, so it was a no brainer at that time. I see that all American Classics went up about 20% in price after the first of the year, so actually $499 is still not too bad of a deal. Your call. You won't find a lot of love on this site for the Phillipino 1911's from Rock Island, Metro Arms, Shooters Arms or Armscor (all made in the same factory, just marketed under different companies for import regs.) Nathan, the owner is a bit of a stickler on buying quality 1911's vs the lower priced copies.
If you just want a beater gun, the American Classic will do the trick. I am very satisfied with mine, and know several other shooters that have them as well. I also own a couple of Springfields that cost a lot more, and there is really no comparison as far as the quality....but they cost a lot more. Good luck.
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...7 Round Mag Limit? Silly Politicians!! |
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gunslinger
Advanced Member
USA
2072 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2012 : 10:26:44
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| Commander barrel length is 4.25". Springfield's Champions are 4", SIG and most others who make Commander style pistols stick with the 4.25" with the exception, I think, of Kimber. 1/4" doesn't amount to much, as it's the grip length not the slide that makes CC harder. You got a great deal on yours, Zonk. I'm on the Pro-Staff list for a Stainless Loaded Champion and was told 9-12 months from the factory! |
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Nathan
Big Sky Guy
USA
21547 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2012 : 10:41:59
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| the primary difference between the commanders (4.25") and ultras (4") is the commander utilizes the bushing barrel setup like a 1911, and the ultra utilizes a bushingless bull barrel setup. i prefer the bushing barrel setup; field stripping in the field without tools is certainly doable. |
Nathan In Montana, carrying a Gen4 Glock 19 loaded with Federal 147 grain +P JHPs carried in a Galco King Tuk thats worn on a Wilderness Instructor's belt.
NRA Certified Instructor, Rifle, Shotgun and Pistol
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plaidad
Junior Member
159 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2012 : 10:44:49
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I have one of these. It's more accurate than I am, and so far (about 1,000 rounds), flawless.
George |
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notjaglock
Starting Member
USA
18 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2012 : 15:31:05
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| Thanks for the info. I decided to go a different rout after spending more time on this forum. I need more of a CCW first and then my next purchase will be a 1911. The price after I did more research did seem a little high so I will just have to save my pennys till I can get a good one. Thanks! Guys! |
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gunslinger
Advanced Member
USA
2072 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2012 : 10:54:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Nathan
SIG's design is classic 1911: SA and Kimber's aren't.
some of sigs design is classic 1911. some of it isnt. just like the SA and kimber.  |
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gunslinger
Advanced Member
USA
2072 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2012 : 11:05:25
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quote:
Originally posted by gunslinger
quote:
Originally posted by Nathan
SIG's design is classic 1911: SA and Kimber's aren't.
some of sigs design is classic 1911. some of it isnt. just like the SA and kimber.
Speaking only of Commander length and bushing lockup rather than Bull barrel and full length guide rod BS. As we both agree, in many other areas SIG has taken JMB's design to the heights of perfection... |
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skarecrow
Starting Member
USA
9 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2012 : 09:35:15
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quote:
Originally posted by zonker1986
The Commander has a 4" barrel not 5". I picked up the full size two years ago and its been a very nice gun for what I paid. Very good slide to frame fit. Personally, I'd save up the extra $300 and get a Springfield Loaded Champion if you are going to pay $500. I only paid $365 for mine, so it was a no brainer at that time. I see that all American Classics went up about 20% in price after the first of the year, so actually $499 is still not too bad of a deal. Your call. You won't find a lot of love on this site for the Phillipino 1911's from Rock Island, Metro Arms, Shooters Arms or Armscor (all made in the same factory, just marketed under different companies for import regs.) Nathan, the owner is a bit of a stickler on buying quality 1911's vs the lower priced copies.
If you just want a beater gun, the American Classic will do the trick. I am very satisfied with mine, and know several other shooters that have them as well. I also own a couple of Springfields that cost a lot more, and there is really no comparison as far as the quality....but they cost a lot more. Good luck.
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skarecrow
Starting Member
USA
9 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2012 : 09:57:54
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quote:
Originally posted by zonker1986
The Commander has a 4" barrel not 5". I picked up the full size two years ago and its been a very nice gun for what I paid. Very good slide to frame fit. Personally, I'd save up the extra $300 and get a Springfield Loaded Champion if you are going to pay $500. I only paid $365 for mine, so it was a no brainer at that time. I see that all American Classics went up about 20% in price after the first of the year, so actually $499 is still not too bad of a deal. Your call. You won't find a lot of love on this site for the Phillipino 1911's from Rock Island, Metro Arms, Shooters Arms or Armscor (all made in the same factory, just marketed under different companies for import regs.) Nathan, the owner is a bit of a stickler on buying quality 1911's vs the lower priced copies.
If you just want a beater gun, the American Classic will do the trick. I am very satisfied with mine, and know several other shooters that have them as well. I also own a couple of Springfields that cost a lot more, and there is really no comparison as far as the quality....but they cost a lot more. Good luck.
First off it is FILIPINO , not PHILIPPINO. Second they are not all made in the same factory. Armscor builds the rock island armory . SAM builds the ATI, and Metro arms builds the American classic. Other marketted names are also built by the various co.panies as well. They are all built on series 70 Colt machines sold to the Philippines. I will put any of my Filipino 1911s up against any high end 1911 in competition,and have done so.
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zonker1986
Advanced Member
USA
8191 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2012 : 11:28:48
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quote:
Originally posted by skarecrow
First off it is FILIPINO , not PHILIPPINO. Second they are not all made in the same factory. Armscor builds the rock island armory . SAM builds the ATI, and Metro arms builds the American classic. Other marketted names are also built by the various co.panies as well. They are all built on series 70 Colt machines sold to the Philippines. I will put any of my Filipino 1911s up against any high end 1911 in competition,and have done so.
what do I know? I was told this information from a guy that sells Rock Islands, American Classics, and ATI Shooters Arms 1911's in Phlorida. Glad you enjoy your budget 1911's made in the Fillipines. I like mine a lot.....but to compare them to high end 1911's??? That is wishful thinking at best.
BTW, I just don't give a  whether a tiny island in the Pacific is spelled with an F or a Ph. Clear? |
...7 Round Mag Limit? Silly Politicians!! |
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nmuskier01
Senior Member
USA
1845 Posts |
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skarecrow
Starting Member
USA
9 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2012 : 12:40:40
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quote:
Originally posted by zonker1986
The Commander has a 4" barrel not 5". I picked up the full size two years ago and its been a very nice gun for what I paid. Very good slide to frame fit. Personally, I'd save up the extra $300 and get a Springfield Loaded Champion if you are going to pay $500. I only paid $365 for mine, so it was a no brainer at that time. I see that all American Classics went up about 20% in price after the first of the year, so actually $499 is still not too bad of a deal. Your call. You won't find a lot of love on this site for the Phillipino 1911's from Rock Island, Metro Arms, Shooters Arms or Armscor (all made in the same factory, just marketed under different companies for import regs.) Nathan, the owner is a bit of a stickler on buying quality 1911's vs the lower priced copies.
If you just want a beater gun, the American Classic will do the trick. I am very satisfied with mine, and know several other shooters that have them as well. I also own a couple of Springfields that cost a lot more, and there is really no comparison as far as the quality....but they cost a lot more. Good luck.
First off it is FILIPINO , not PHILIPPINO. Second they are not all made in the same factory. Armscor builds the rock island armory . SAM builds the ATI, and Metro arms builds the American classic. Other marketted names are also built by the various co.panies as well. They are all built on series 70 Colt machines sold to the Philippines. I will put any of my Filipino 1911s up against any high end 1911 in competition,and have done so.
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skarecrow
Starting Member
USA
9 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2012 : 12:48:05
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| Another example of wishful thinking is that you could outrun me with a high end 1911 against any of my Rock Islands or Metros in CDP Class USPSA competition. Your "guy's" info is incorrect. |
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modernswords
Junior Member
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2012 : 13:37:46
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quote:
Originally posted by skarecrow
Another example of wishful thinking is that you could outrun me with a high end 1911 against any of my Rock Islands or Metros in CDP Class USPSA competition. Your "guy's" info is incorrect.
There are about 94 million Filipinos in the Philippines, ...
Uhhhhhhh... pretty brazen for post number 4. I bet you you can whip most anybody's ass at most anything. |
 
"...he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one."
“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”- Amendment II, U.S. Constitution |
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skarecrow
Starting Member
USA
9 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2012 : 15:01:16
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| I am right here in the USA. Army veteran,comp shooter and work in the protection industry. I shoot around 1000 rounds a month in various disciplines and in training. I have worked on,shot, and built 1911 platforms since 1995. Sarcasm adds nothing to the discussion other than allowing you to sidestep the topic. Seeing as you dont know a great deal about the Filipino 1911,where they are built, by whom they are built, and on what design they come from I would assume your "review" isnt to helpful to the one asking the question. I have Kimbers and Springfields that take a back seat to my RIs. The bluing on my AC commander rivals ANY Colt I have had. Being an elitest and and non objective holds no weight when I routinely receive empirical information on the contrary. |
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skarecrow
Starting Member
USA
9 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2012 : 15:07:41
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| 0 malfunctions with sub inch groups off hand at 10 yards with good fit and finish is acceptable. I dont think the labeling stamped on the slide makes much difference. |
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skarecrow
Starting Member
USA
9 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2012 : 15:53:34
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| When i refer to high end, I am refering to cost not quality. Specifically Kimber and Sprinfield (spotty CQ as of late). Certainly not comparing to Ed Brown,wilsin, or les baer. |
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skarecrow
Starting Member
USA
9 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2012 : 15:54:31
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| * Wilson. |
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zonker1986
Advanced Member
USA
8191 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2012 : 18:48:45
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quote:
Originally posted by skarecrow
I am right here in the USA. Army veteran,comp shooter and work in the protection industry. I shoot around 1000 rounds a month in various disciplines and in training. I have worked on,shot, and built 1911 platforms since 1995. Sarcasm adds nothing to the discussion other than allowing you to sidestep the topic. Seeing as you dont know a great deal about the Filipino 1911,where they are built, by whom they are built, and on what design they come from I would assume your "review" isnt to helpful to the one asking the question. I have Kimbers and Springfields that take a back seat to my RIs. The bluing on my AC commander rivals ANY Colt I have had. Being an elitest and and non objective holds no weight when I routinely receive empirical information on the contrary.
Armscor makes the Rock Island Armory 1911, Auto Ordinance 1911, and the Charles Daly 1911. Shooters Arms makes the Iver Johnson lineup of 1911's, the Citadels I believe, and the 1911's imported by American Tactical Imports, and Metro Arms makes the American Classic line of 1911's.
No, I really don't know anything about the 1911's made in the Phillipines, other than they are third tier guns any way you stack them and most people buy them based on cost alone just to have a 1911. The accuracy out of my AC II is not even close to my other two Springfield 1911's. Fit and finish is very nice, and I agree the bluing on the American Classics if first rate. Slide to frame fit on my AC II is tighter most 1911's costing $400, but still not as tight as my two Springfields, but they cost twice as much, so I can cut the ACII some slack. I wish I could get the kinds of groupings you get out of your American Classics, but its just not the case with my one specimen. |
...7 Round Mag Limit? Silly Politicians!! |
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skarecrow
Starting Member
USA
9 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2012 : 14:50:14
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| The problem is as I see it, is not a matter of inferior design or inherent quality, it is random sloppiness of the Quality control. THe Rock Island,Metro Arms,And ATI guns are all on par with Colt WHEN the QC/QA is on board. I have seen both ends of the spectrum as far as quality released to the market... But I have seen that in Springfield and Kimber as well. I have had Springfield guns that were better used as a hammer than a handgun. That is certainly not the standard but lemons slip through. I would assume "more" lemons slip through on the Filipino guns, but the ones that are built well (vast majority) are built VERY well. Plus they are good build platforms (like the old 90's Norinco imports. THe Philippines has had a long love affair with the 1911 type .45 handgun as it was essentially developed to stop their Moro warriors when the .38 cal revolvers weren't very effective. Carry that into WW2 where our Marines and soldiers fought along side Filipino warriors to repel the Japanese invaders. The 1911 was the standard sidearm. Long after our forces adopted the 9mm (beretta) the Filipinos maintained the 1911 as their sidearm of choice. They have a bit of history with the gun. |
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quikduk
Starting Member
USA
1 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2012 : 16:58:58
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They also (at least as far as Armscor) use modern CNC machining and casting techniques and not left-over WWII tooling. Also, my RIA-MS shoots very small groups (1") at 7yds and very good groups (2"-3") from 15-25yds...but that is probably my lack of practice lately. The quality is good to very good with only minor tuning required initially.
FWIW, I bought mine to "learn" about the 1911 platform and I believe these 1911's are ideal for that purpose. There is no reason also to think that they are inherently inferior or unreliable. My BIL's Kimber took over 1000 rounds to smooth out and become reliable. My RIA-MS was that way out of the box.
JMHO though as I am still a 1911 newbie. |
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Metro Arms American Classic Commander
