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Chris_T
Moderator
USA
2868 Posts |
 Posted - 05/07/2012 : 18:14:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Nathan
quote:
Originally posted by Flugel89
I think over the past few months Nathan has scared me away from subcompacts.
...i think ive scared me away from subcompacts. 
the solution is simple, and I don't know how often I'll have to explain it to you buddy......
There are the guns that don't work, then there are glocks and revolvers  |
This post may contain opinions that are not intended to be popular. 
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither" - Benjamin Franklin. |
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Flugel89
Average Member
USA
521 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2012 : 19:59:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Chris_T
There are the guns that don't work, then there are glocks and revolvers
And then there are guns that work, and have ergonomic designs. :P
My FNP9 has 3,000 rounds through it with the only 2 failures being squibs caused by bad ammo. I'd happily bet my life on it firing when I pull the trigger on my SD ammo. |
Duty weapon: FNH FNP9 loaded with Federal 147gr +P HST
Carry weapon: Myself. I don't live in a free state.
Before tyranny goes to sleep, it checks under the bed for an armed populace. |
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1813Anschutz
Advanced Member
USA
2291 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2012 : 21:55:40
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I suspect magazine spring that has too much tension...were it not going back to S&W I would take the mag apart and nip off one coil as an experiment.
Randy |
"The more I shoot,the LUCKIER I seem to get!" |
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shipwreck
Starting Member
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2012 : 07:23:57
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Well, I just don't see this as that big of a deal.
I have had several guns in years past - insert them into a new holster - and the slide can get pushed back a little. I've had that happen to a Walther P99c, a couple of 1911s, and FNP and a Glock 26 in a new shoulder holster.
I learned to keep my thumb on the back of the slide while holstering. After a while after the leather holster loosened up, this went away.
Many guns - if you pull them a tiny, tiny pit out of battery, the recoil spring doesn't have the "oomph" to close it back. You have to push it back yourself.
Keep the slide closed while holstering, and this is a non issue. |
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Visit: Texas Gun Forum!!!!
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Lost Lake
Starting Member
4 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2012 : 08:39:30
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Well someone had to find a flaw sometime....
Do you think it's due to the double recoil spring? Or is there a burr on the slide catching the first round in the mag?
I don't have a Shield because I'm waiting for the LE version to come out. I tried this with my compact and full size M&P's and can't get them to do it. |
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Nathan
Big Sky Guy
USA
21542 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2012 : 10:54:14
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quote:
Originally posted by shipwreck
Well, I just don't see this as that big of a deal.
a gun that fails to go bang in a gunfight is a very big deal; as is a gun that blows up in your hand. |
Nathan In Montana, carrying a Gen4 Glock 19 loaded with Federal 147 grain +P JHPs carried in a Galco King Tuk thats worn on a Wilderness Instructor's belt.
NRA Certified Instructor, Rifle, Shotgun and Pistol
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Nathan
Big Sky Guy
USA
21542 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2012 : 11:00:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Lost Lake
Well someone had to find a flaw sometime
...but why does it have to be me, and always after i spend my money? back in '07 i was first to find the flaw in the walther PPS (CLICK HERE) and now this.
quote:
Do you think it's due to the double recoil spring? Or is there a burr on the slide catching the first round in the mag?
i could only speculate. will certainl update when i have it back from S&W.
quote:
I'm waiting for the LE version to come out.
 whats the difference? |
Nathan In Montana, carrying a Gen4 Glock 19 loaded with Federal 147 grain +P JHPs carried in a Galco King Tuk thats worn on a Wilderness Instructor's belt.
NRA Certified Instructor, Rifle, Shotgun and Pistol
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Nathan
Big Sky Guy
USA
21542 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2012 : 11:54:15
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| see updated original post. |
Nathan In Montana, carrying a Gen4 Glock 19 loaded with Federal 147 grain +P JHPs carried in a Galco King Tuk thats worn on a Wilderness Instructor's belt.
NRA Certified Instructor, Rifle, Shotgun and Pistol
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shipwreck
Starting Member
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2012 : 11:54:34
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I still think this is a non issue...
Even when not using a holster - just doing a press check. I've owned probably 50+ handguns/semi autos in my lifetime.
I have many of them not have the slide completely close back automatically if I pulled the slide back just a tiny bit to see if there was a round in the gun. Even a few 1911s. I've had to just push the slide back that tiny bit manually. Probably at least 10 or more handguns I have owned before did this.
That's the main report - that if you pull the slide back a tiny, tiny bit, it doesn't close itself all the way.
Now, personally, I haven't had any REAL chambering issues with my Shield - either thru pulling the slide back manually or using the slide release. |
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Visit: Texas Gun Forum!!!!
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Lost Lake
Starting Member
4 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2012 : 12:29:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Nathan
quote:
Originally posted by Lost Lake
[quote]I'm waiting for the LE version to come out.
whats the difference?
The LE versions are sold at a price of about 70% of the retail price and come with an extra magazine. We are hoping the offer one without the safety also.
Hey, I'm a huge S&W fan and hate to see this happen, but for my life, I want a gun that goes bang when I pull the trigger. I don't want to check that the safety didn't accidentally move on, that the action is closed, that the magazine is fully seated, that a drop of oil is in the right place, whatever.
I have never had a semi-auto I own NOT fire when I ask it to except for my Remington Jammamatic deer rifle. I can now understand the revolver guys. |
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1813Anschutz
Advanced Member
USA
2291 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2012 : 12:39:44
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As posted on the S&W forum by me...
Please take a look at the link on concealedcarryforum.com for an update. The real source of this problem seems to be the bottom of the slide dragging across the top of the brass. See the attached photo.
This same thing exists in a store new but factory fired Shield in a local store.
Two things I suspect are either far too much spring tension in the magazine or that portion of the slide being over sized or roughly finished or both.....
For all who are concerned about the sweeping of his hand, he is an instructor and is using dummy rounds that I made for him for this demo.
Repeated attempts were made to MAKE the Shield or any other M&P fire out of battery and they simply WILL NOT fire unless there is total lock up in the slide and barrel
Randy
PS, there were NO failures in 500 rounds with this Shield in live fire ,only when the demo is exercised does ths condition exist. |
"The more I shoot,the LUCKIER I seem to get!" |
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deadguy
I see dead people
7297 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2012 : 12:41:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Lost Lake
... for my life, I want a gun that goes bang when I pull the trigger. I don't want to check that the safety didn't accidentally move on, that the action is closed, that the magazine is fully seated, that a drop of oil is in the right place, whatever.
That's it right there. That little movement that some are calling no big deal is a VERY big deal. I would have absolutely no confidence in that pistol until it was fixed.
For the record none of mine fail to return to battery on a press check. |
People are getting fatter everyday. 10mm isn't just for bears anymore. |
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1813Anschutz
Advanced Member
USA
2291 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2012 : 13:19:45
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Remember, that this condition does not happen in live fire only when there is a round in the chamber and the magazine is topped off.
Rest assured that S&W will make it right for Nathan and anyone else. Again, it cannot and will not fire out of battery. I have tried and tried to FORCE it to and it will NOT.
Randy |
"The more I shoot,the LUCKIER I seem to get!" |
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Lost Lake
Starting Member
4 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2012 : 13:19:45
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| Some of the Shields are doing it WITH NO MAG inserted, so it can't be the pressure of the round on the slide. Maybe the recoil spring is too weak at the end of its stretch. If I had one I'd shim the recoil spring a bit with something then try to see if it does it. |
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YooperTrav
Average Member
USA
785 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2012 : 16:09:12
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quote:
Originally posted by 1813Anschutz
Again, it cannot and will not fire out of battery.
and this a catastrophic problem Shipwreck. I have pulled my Shield from the holster and it is out of battery. Most likely Im not even going to notice this in a defensive situation. So the gun is useless.
even Smith & Wesson agreed that it was a major problem and of course they wanted the weapon back. I too will update when I get it back... |
GOD BLESS AMERICA
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Trooper Joe
Starting Member
7 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2012 : 05:54:38
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Just found this issue last night (on the S & W forum) and just found this forum this morning (Seems like a great forum).
I noticed when my Shield was new,, that the slide going forward, just before complete battery condition, seemed a little rough. However, in testing this gun with a few hundred rounds of everything, nothing could make it fail to feed or fire. (This condition seems to have greatly improved after several hundred rounds however,)
However, the last time I shot it, I was trying some of the new Hornady Critical Duty which unlike their Critical Defense round is loaded with a slightly longer bullet at 135 grns (also +P).
I fully loaded the magazine and inserted into the gun that had a round in the chamber. Fired the first round and then the gun failed to fire. Did the tap, and rack thing and all was well (ejected a live round/evidently the first round that had been in the loaded magazine). My theory is that the 135 grn Hornandy round was rubbing the bottom of the slide in keeping it from going into full battery even when firing the gun.
It should be noted that the gun did not fire when it was not in complete battery.
Fast forward to this thread. I can manually get my Shield to do this (with my regular Hornandy carry CD ammo) even with several rounds removed from the magazine. Finally, when you get down to about 4 or 5 rounds, you cannot manually get it to fail to go into full battery. (Note: this is with a round in the chamber.
I just checked my Glock 36 which I keep fully loaded in the house. With my 7 round mag (stock mag with a Pierce 1 extender), I can get it to not fully go into battery. However when I tip the gun muzzle down, gravity seems to click it into full battery. I cannot get it to do this with the stock 6 round magazine.
I cannot get my Glock 19 to do this even with a fully loaded 15 round magazine.
Come to think of it, That last session at the range did get me one light primer strike with S & B ammo. I am now wondering whether or not this was a condition of not going completely into battery. That same round did fire when I put it back in to try it. Hmm!
If that is the case, then maybe the gun will not fire when not in full battery, but you may experience a light primer strike.
The concern with my issues as listed is that both of these things happened when I was firing the gun after firing the first round (as in a fire fight).
I wasn't going to call S & W, but maybe I will, just to be sure.
Again, a great forum.
Trooper Joe
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Trooper Joe |
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wachuko
Starting Member
USA
6 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2012 : 10:01:23
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Subscribed. Looking forward to the response from S&W.
I bought mine yesterday, even after reading this thread. From the available options in subcompacts, the Shield seemed to be the best option to go with. Plus, to me, it felt better in my hands than a Walter PPS.
I almost made the mistake of getting a Beretta Nano... too bad, looked and felt great to carry...
Anyway, keep us posted.
Also, great to read that the video was done with dummy rounds. Being a newbie with guns I have to be honest that I was concern with your safety.
Looking forward to the updates... |
Stay safe by staying alert,
Wachuko |
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shipwreck
Starting Member
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2012 : 10:24:13
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I have seen one other guy report a problem about the critical duty ammo. Apparently, the entire length of the round may be longer than their critcal defense ammo. His thought was that the specs of the critical duty ammo was too big compared to other 9mm rounds.
This could possibly be an issue for the Shield. When the FNP45 handgun came out - WWB would not work reliably in it. The specs of WWB 45 is apparently just slightly, slightly off from other brands of 45 ammo. WWB stated they would not change their specs, and FN didn'tw ant to mess with anything because of one brand.
Now, I am no longer the admin of the Fn Forum - and i personally have no interest in the FNP 45. So, I haven't followed the thing more recently to see if that ammo is an issue with the FNP45 still.
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Visit: Texas Gun Forum!!!!
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Tye
Junior Member
403 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2012 : 12:38:00
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quote:
Originally posted by wachuko
Subscribed. Looking forward to the response from S&W.
I bought mine yesterday, even after reading this thread. From the available options in subcompacts, the Shield seemed to be the best option to go with. Plus, to me, it felt better in my hands than a Walter PPS.
I almost made the mistake of getting a Beretta Nano... too bad, looked and felt great to carry...
I'm not sure why that would have been a mistake?? So far so good for me (see other post on the Nano). Is there something I should be looking out for re: Nano? Maybe reply in the other post rather than hijacking this one.
Thanks, |
Tye |
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wachuko
Starting Member
USA
6 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2012 : 14:38:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Tye
quote:
Originally posted by wachuko
Subscribed. Looking forward to the response from S&W.
I bought mine yesterday, even after reading this thread. From the available options in subcompacts, the Shield seemed to be the best option to go with. Plus, to me, it felt better in my hands than a Walter PPS.
I almost made the mistake of getting a Beretta Nano... too bad, looked and felt great to carry...
I'm not sure why that would have been a mistake?? So far so good for me (see other post on the Nano). Is there something I should be looking out for re: Nano? Maybe reply in the other post rather than hijacking this one.
Thanks,
I will reply in the other thread. |
Stay safe by staying alert,
Wachuko |
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Nathan
Big Sky Guy
USA
21542 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2012 : 11:52:46
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| its been a couple weeks now since S&W got my shield. not one word back from them yet. |
Nathan In Montana, carrying a Gen4 Glock 19 loaded with Federal 147 grain +P JHPs carried in a Galco King Tuk thats worn on a Wilderness Instructor's belt.
NRA Certified Instructor, Rifle, Shotgun and Pistol
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Razorback
New Member
USA
60 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2012 : 23:30:58
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| Sent mine back about a week ago. I figured they would keep it a couple weeks. I was expecting to get it back in about a month. Just a wild guess though. The guy I talked to acted like this was the first he had heard of this problem and I know some of you guys sent yours back before I did. |
Springfield XD-40
M&P Shield 9mm
S&W 66 .357 mag |
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gunslinger
Advanced Member
USA
2072 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2012 : 10:34:57
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| I was thinking of getting one for my daughter. Then decided I'd give her my Taurus M-85 instead. She just got her CCW and needs something that is reliable and concealable. Glad I made that choice. Smith should be doing a recall on this, imo. |
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jyo
New Member
USA
51 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2012 : 01:22:50
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| Interesting thread---the only small guns I have carried concealed are two Kahr CW9s, my Walther PPS 9mm and my two Walther TPHs in 22lr---never had this problem with any of them. |
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gunslinger
Advanced Member
USA
2072 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2012 : 11:33:33
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[quote]Originally posted by Nathan
but why does it have to be me, and always after i spend my money?
[quote]
Because you refuse to buy John Browning's finest upgrade: The SIG 1911.  |
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Topic |
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M&P Shield - out of battery failure
