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SKIandSKY
Average Member
USA
831 Posts |
 Posted - 06/13/2012 : 09:27:10
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...I love me some .45!
I have always had an aversion to the .45 caliber and the 1911. My dad had served in Korea in the early '60's and he swore that his 1911 was crap as far as accuracy goes. So, lacking any experience with the arm myself, I adopted that view too.
Now that a friend has loaned me his Kahr CW45 and I've been carrying it daily for two weeks, I LOVE IT.
If funds allow this year, I wish to buy both a P45 and a 1911 for carry. Wish now I would have bought a Ballestar Molina and Sistema Colt when they were in the country cheap in the 90's.
S&S |
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deadguy
I see dead people
7298 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2012 : 09:30:16
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| Glad you have finally seen the light. |
People are getting fatter everyday. 10mm isn't just for bears anymore. |
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DaddyO16
Advanced Member
USA
6009 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2012 : 10:21:21
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| The reason I carry a .45 is because they don't make a .46. |
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samuelrp
Senior Member
USA
1886 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2012 : 10:25:32
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| The 1911 FEELS SO GOOD !! |
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zonker1986
Advanced Member
USA
8190 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2012 : 13:17:57
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.45 on the left and 9mm on the right. Any questions?
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...7 Round Mag Limit? Silly Politicians!! |
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Nemesis76
Junior Member
USA
127 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2012 : 14:40:32
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| I love my 1911, it is so comfortable. |
Lord let me be fast and accurate. Let my aim be true, and my hand faster than those who would seek to destroy me. Grant me victory over my foes and those that wish to do harm to me and mine. Let not my last thought be 'if only I had a gun'. And Lord if today truly is the day you call me home, let me die in a pile of empty brass |
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Tigershack
Junior Member
329 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2012 : 10:10:52
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| My Colt 1911 is my most accurate pistol by far....better than I am. I don't understand your dad's judgement of the 1911's accuracy other than maybe he was issued a bad one or maybe he didn't keep it maintained (they take a bit more care). Or maybe he has bad memories from his time in the military and the .45 is associated with the bad memories. I would sure understand that. |
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Treetop Mike
Junior Member
208 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2012 : 10:38:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Tigershack
My Colt 1911 is my most accurate pistol by far....better than I am. I don't understand your dad's judgement of the 1911's accuracy other than maybe he was issued a bad one or maybe he didn't keep it maintained (they take a bit more care). Or maybe he has bad memories from his time in the military and the .45 is associated with the bad memories. I would sure understand that.
I do know the military issue 1911 I shot while serving was a beat up piece of  ! Don't get me wrong, wonerful gun but some of the military animals are beat to hell. |
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keithj
Junior Member
267 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2012 : 20:50:00
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| 1911's are what you make them or pay for....Meaning I shoot Bullseye Pistol with a 1911 , a SA Range officer with a little tweakin from me the gun will hold 10 shots in a 1'' or less at 25 yds and about 2.5'' at 50 yds....Haveing said that Some custom 1911's will hold 1.5'' at 50yds ...My carry 1911 a SA loaded full size will shoot 1.5'' @ 25yds with 230gr HST's but this gun has also had alittle tweakin done to it....Most well made combat 1911's will shoot 2.5 ish at 25yds . Most off the shelf combat 1911's will hold 4-5'' at 25yds ....1911's are like Harleys or Hot rods they are what you make them ...If you get a Ruger or a Remington 1911 expect it to shoot 3-5'' at 25yds and if it shoots better you'll be happy...Also it takes about $1000 to get into a decent 1911 ...if you want a good gun get a SA operator or a TRP or above and work on it from there ...My SA loaded with Target loads will shoot almost as good as my Target gun but it took some work and some coin to get it that way ...1911's are awesome guns if you are willing to learn about them and do some tweakin.....have fun. |
G19 in a Galco Summer Comfort - 147gr HST . SA Loaded 1911 in a Galco N-3 - 230gr HST , S&W 65-5 in a Desantis speed scabbard. 135gr .357 Gold Dots with .38+p reload |
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SKIandSKY
Average Member
USA
831 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2012 : 20:59:37
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The Army did something FUNKY when he was shipped to Korea (via a real "ship" nonetheless) and that was to train an entire battle group which set things up for a major cluster *uck when men's time came short....
He was in from '60 to '62 and was gunner on a M1919A6, everyone carried M1 Garands, he complained about the search and traverse gears being worn and loose on the tripod, I have read most 1911's were badly worn by that time also. Pathetic our military has had spotty years on equipment upkeep.
I do know some bad things happened over there on the DMZ, things he has never shared with me. Still, he is a meticulously clean fellow with weapons and tools, and still is a very crack shot. I just wish that I would have had more money in the late '90's and bought a couple of the Argentine .45's.
S&S |
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robalo23
Junior Member
USA
266 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2012 : 04:23:29
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Back in the day, Military 1911's were built with very loose tolerances.
The Idea was that you could take 10 of them apart, mix up all the parts, then reassemble 10 pistols. The barrel lock up was as loose as they could make it. Hence poor accuracy. Also making the guns with loose tolerances helped prevent failures due to dirt and lack of cleaning. Now the 1911s that SOCOM use are built by NightHawk industries and are the best in the business! |
The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms, is as a last resort to protect themselves against tyranny in its government. Thomas Jefferson
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Tigershack
Junior Member
329 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2012 : 11:33:17
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| Some good points here.....I understand the loose tolerances concept. And I am sure the general idea was that pistols were for close quarters combat and/or you didn't have a rifle at hand. Sad to think our boys overseas had to make do with worn out gear, but I am sure by the mid to late 40's and early 50's, Washington had new priorities. |
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Tigershack
Junior Member
329 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2012 : 20:39:41
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quote:
Originally posted by robalo23
Back in the day, Military 1911's were built with very loose tolerances.
The Idea was that you could take 10 of them apart, mix up all the parts, then reassemble 10 pistols. The barrel lock up was as loose as they could make it. Hence poor accuracy. Also making the guns with loose tolerances helped prevent failures due to dirt and lack of cleaning. Now the 1911s that SOCOM use are built by NightHawk industries and are the best in the business!
Wow, checked out Nighthawk.....I think I found a Christmas present, to me!  |
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oldnfat
Starting Member
8 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2012 : 09:37:48
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| I once owned a B Molina .45 . Worst gun I ever owned. You could not hit ANYTHING with it. It was crap. |
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kingcrabbercurrry
Junior Member
USA
445 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2012 : 00:44:24
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quote:
Originally posted by robalo23
Now the 1911s that SOCOM use are built by NightHawk industries and are the best in the business!
A lot of the SOCOM and elite LE agencies people think are using 1911s, aren't.
It's pretty just much MEU(SOC) units at this point, and those pistols are not built by Nighthawk.
CAG ad FBI HRT are using Glock 22s, and have been for a number of years. |
"When you signed on to carry that blaster, your world changed. This is about mindset, and regardless what certain groups may think, not every one should have a gun. Or a car. Or children. Or oxygen. It is not a part time thing. It is a commitment to a lifestyle and to a culture." - Pat Rogers |
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Jim1911a1
Junior Member
USA
337 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2012 : 07:56:13
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| The majority of any agencies will be certainly be using glocks sigs or smiths. Sure, some elite use the 1911 from what I can tell. I read that the recon marines are now being issued 1911s. |
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robalo23
Junior Member
USA
266 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2012 : 09:01:53
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quote:
Originally posted by kingcrabbercurrry
You are correct sir, my mistake. Gunsmiths Craig Gholson and Jeff Phillips were 2 of the smiths consulted on the current gun being used but the actual gun is made by (yech) Kimber. Quote from Wikipidia
"The final units as issued to MCSOCOM Det-1 are the Kimber ICQBs with SureFire Integrated Military Pistol Light (IMPL), Dawson Precision rail, Gemtech TRL Tactical Retention Lanyards based upon the jury-rigged telephone cord versions, modified Safariland 6004 holsters, Simonich G-10 Gunner Grips manufactured by Simonich Knives and Strider Knives replaced the original Pachmayr rubber grips, and Wilson Combat's '47D' 8-round magazines.[9][11] Tritium Novak LoMount sights replaced the originals which were made in-house by the Marines." This was as of 2010.
quote:
Originally posted by robalo23
Now the 1911s that SOCOM use are built by NightHawk industries and are the best in the business!
A lot of the SOCOM and elite LE agencies people think are using 1911s, aren't.
It's pretty just much MEU(SOC) units at this point, and those pistols are not built by Nighthawk.
CAG ad FBI HRT are using Glock 22s, and have been for a number of years.
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The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms, is as a last resort to protect themselves against tyranny in its government. Thomas Jefferson
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kingcrabbercurrry
Junior Member
USA
445 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2012 : 14:39:52
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quote:
Originally posted by robalo23
You are correct sir, my mistake. Gunsmiths Craig Gholson and Jeff Phillips were 2 of the smiths consulted on the current gun being used but the actual gun is made by (yech) Kimber. Quote from Wikipidia
"The final units as issued to MCSOCOM Det-1 are the Kimber ICQBs with SureFire Integrated Military Pistol Light (IMPL), Dawson Precision rail, Gemtech TRL Tactical Retention Lanyards based upon the jury-rigged telephone cord versions, modified Safariland 6004 holsters, Simonich G-10 Gunner Grips manufactured by Simonich Knives and Strider Knives replaced the original Pachmayr rubber grips, and Wilson Combat's '47D' 8-round magazines.[9][11] Tritium Novak LoMount sights replaced the originals which were made in-house by the Marines." This was as of 2010.
500 Kimber ICQBs (or Interim CQB Pistol) were purchased for MEU(SOC)/MARSOC detachments as a stop-gap (hence interim) measure in order to supply pistols for deploying units that the USMC Precision Weapons Shop would not have been otherwise able to build in the desired timeframe. Since then, MARSOC has also bought Springfield Professionals from the SA custom shop in order to fill a need beyond the capacities of the PWS.
Current USMC 1911s are built by Marine 2112s at the PWS at Quantico and, as far as I am aware, are the only 1911s still being used in an operational capacity by certain elements of MARSOC. The USMC has released an RFI on a new contract for the M45 pistol, with the Colt Rail Gun and Springfield MC Operator being the two front-runners, but a final decision has yet to be made.
While the 1911 is a fine pistol, the design and nature of the gun is time- and labor-intensive to maintain on a unit level. For a unit deploying to an area without extensive armorer support and limited parts availability, keeping these hand-fitted guns running well can become a very cumbersome exercise. Additionally, a MEU(SOC) Marine fires up to 40,000 rounds of pistol ammo during an 8-to-12-week train-up for deployment, after which any 1911 design is going to need a serious armorer inspection, parts replacement and possibly a complete re-build.
As a result, many elements of USSOCOM have begun to issue sidearms that are more forgiving of harsh environments, unknown maintenance capabilities and high-round-count training exercises. Elements of US Army Special Forces have been using Glock 22s or the Beretta M9, NSW units use SIG 226s, 228s, 239s and HK 45c's depending on mission and FBI Regional SWAT teams and HRT have almost exclusively transitioned to the Glock 22 as their main sidearm.
This isn't meant as a slam on the 1911 for individual CONUS CCW or LE use, but in the modern era, where armorers are solely concerned with keeping guns running and in the hands of our warfighters, a pistol with truly interchangeable parts and maintenance requirements that can be performed on the end-user level makes a lot more sense.
Providing our doorkickers with a combat-proven, reliable pistol with 16 rounds of barrier-defeating .40 cal on tap also makes sense from an operational and mission-accomplishment standpoint, particularly when involved in operations around vehicles and in interior CQB environments.
The USMCs love-affair with the 1911 seems to speak more of biases at the upper echelons of the decision-making hierarchy than of the desire to equip Marines with the best tool for the job. |
"When you signed on to carry that blaster, your world changed. This is about mindset, and regardless what certain groups may think, not every one should have a gun. Or a car. Or children. Or oxygen. It is not a part time thing. It is a commitment to a lifestyle and to a culture." - Pat Rogers |
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Nathan
Big Sky Guy
USA
21544 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2012 : 14:56:25
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quote:
Originally posted by kingcrabbercurrry
While the 1911 is a fine pistol, the design and nature of the gun is time- and labor-intensive to maintain on a unit level. For a unit deploying to an area without extensive armorer support and limited parts availability, keeping these hand-fitted guns running well can become a very cumbersome exercise.
agreed.
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in the modern era, where armorers are solely concerned with keeping guns running and in the hands of our warfighters, a pistol with truly interchangeable parts and maintenance requirements that can be performed on the end-user level makes a lot more sense.
well said.
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Providing our doorkickers
how about we just stop kicking so many doors?
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16 rounds of barrier-defeating .40 cal on tap also makes sense from an operational and mission-accomplishment standpoint
if barriers are your concern, ther are many choices superior to .40. nothing (in autoloader calibers) penetrates hard barriers like 357 sig. second to 357 sig i would choose 147 grain 9mm.
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the USMCs love-affair with the 1911 seems to speak more of biases at the upper echelons of the decision-making hierarchy than of the desire to equip Marines with the best tool for the job.
agreed. |
Nathan In Montana, carrying a Gen4 Glock 19 loaded with Federal 147 grain +P JHPs carried in a Galco King Tuk thats worn on a Wilderness Instructor's belt.
NRA Certified Instructor, Rifle, Shotgun and Pistol
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kingcrabbercurrry
Junior Member
USA
445 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2012 : 18:54:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Nathan
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Providing our doorkickers
how about we just stop kicking so many doors?
Don't blame me, I voted for Ron Paul.  But as long as there are American servicemen operating in foreign countries with orders to find the bad dudes wherever they hide and "give them the good news", I'll support anything that puts the best tools for the job in their hands.
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16 rounds of barrier-defeating .40 cal on tap also makes sense from an operational and mission-accomplishment standpoint
if barriers are your concern, there are many choices superior to .40. nothing (in autoloader calibers) penetrates hard barriers like 357 sig. second to 357 sig i would choose 147 grain 9mm.
Agreed. I personally don't think the .40 cal round is worth a anyway, but I would posit that there are some economies of scale (like the recent 450 million ATK contract) at play here, in addition to the reluctance to bring yet another caliber of weapon and ammo into the government supply line.
For special operations units whose objectives may from time-to-time involve vehicle assaults or hastily-barricaded targets, I think .40 makes some sense (it's certainly better against intermediate barriers than 124 gr. 9mm NATO FMJ). In FMJ rounds the larger permanent cavity of the larger diameter bullet makes it more effective against soft targets and you don't give up anything in terms of magazine capacity vs. .357 SIG.
Now, for other applications where the likelihood of engagements in and around vehicles is a near-certainty and JHP ammunition is not prohibited (e.g. Highway Patrol, PSD, etc.), I think the .357 or a 9mm with 147 gr rounds would be a better choice. |
"When you signed on to carry that blaster, your world changed. This is about mindset, and regardless what certain groups may think, not every one should have a gun. Or a car. Or children. Or oxygen. It is not a part time thing. It is a commitment to a lifestyle and to a culture." - Pat Rogers |
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SKIandSKY
Average Member
USA
831 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2012 : 22:38:46
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Loose guns are more reliable when things get dirty. Opposite of what a P08 Luger will do.....
I have a Ballestar Molina on layaway....I'm very C & R orientated but it isn't for carry. |
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Never thought I'd say this...
