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AFP22811
Starting Member
10 Posts |
 Posted - 07/04/2012 : 11:44:05
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first of all, i just signed up for this forum so hello everyone! i have a sig sauer P228 and i am in the middle of completing my concealed carry application. the 228 is not the most ideal carry gun i know, but im going to at least try before i spend the money on something else. i love my sig, i love the feel and the reliability, i trust that gun completely, but there is one thing that i wish was better... the DA pull on that first shot. i have been shooting with it a lot and i usually hit the target with that first shot, but i'll admit it usally is my least accurate shot of the group. i have considered getting a 1911 and carrying cocked and locked but im not sure i trust a cocked and locked gun (just my opinion) and i think the sig is a superior combat gun (again IN MY OPINION, sorry 1911 fans). so i started looking for ways to lighten and improve the trigger pull and i keep coming back to gray guns. for $300 bucks i can send the gun in to him and get the action enhancement package and the SRT package. i like the idea of having a lighter, smoother DA pull and a short reset trigger, but here are my hesitations:
1 - the gun is a discontinued classic, do i really want to mess with it?
2 - $300 is a lot of money. should i just spend the money on ammo and practice more?
3 - i have heard guys say that they would never modify the trigger on a combat gun. during a defensive scenario, your adrenaline will be jacked and your fine motor skills will go to crap... the longer trigger pull is there for a reason. interesting point.
4 - i can my replacement hammer springs on line that are reduced weight, should i just try those?
i know im being long winded and i apologize, but im kind of at a loss as to what i should do here. while we're talking about it, anyone carry a SA only 1911? any thoughts on that?
any opinions and advice would be much appreciated. if anyone has had work done by gray guns that would be great to hear about. thanks guys, shoot well and stay safe! |
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rambosky
New Member
USA
84 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2012 : 14:31:32
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The only pistols I have trigger work done on is for IDPA competition. Never a CCW. I have four carry guns, G27, G36, Walther PPS in .40 and a Colt Commander 1911. The 1911 has the best trigger pull of all of them. I think you're really saying that you don't trust yourself with a cocked and locked 1911.
So others will give their advice and you can decide yourself.
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"NEVER SHALL I FAIL MY COMRADES" |
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SKIandSKY
Average Member
USA
850 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2012 : 16:30:36
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I don't know enough tech specs to comment on most of the questions.
I would get a trigger job if I wanted one. About the only time I think it would become a legal liability would be in an accidental discharge. I don't think I'd want a trigger pull too light, but I am more accurate with a smooth, crisp, exact pull. My Kahr has a great trigger, although long. My current carry gun, loaned by a friend, has hhad two trigger jobs, but only because the reset was jacked.
Give us some info, what state are you in?
Glad you are arming yourself! It's largely mindset, awareness, and practice. I would also recomend a spare mag, knife, tac flashlight, and pepper spray. |
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RandyM
Junior Member
USA
437 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2012 : 18:13:20
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Welcome to the forum - stop by the new member area and tell us a bit about yourself!
If you like your Sig, can use it, and trust it, it sounds like it's ideal. You may have to dress around it, but you have to with any gun at some point. Regarding your trigger job, go for it if you want it. It depends if you see a value to a harder first pull. I prefer it, because if my adrenaline is flowing, I want a harder pull to counter it. When you say you're hitting the target on the first shot, is it hitting well within a center mass size portion? To me that's the important part. |
A equals A
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AFP22811
Starting Member
10 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2012 : 22:52:03
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rambosky- its not that i dont trust myself, its that i think a DA/SA gun just makes more sense. IMHO
skiandsky- i'm currently living in oklahoma, but im USAF so i'll be outta here in october. where to? no idea! haha
randym- the first shot more often than not is center of mass, but not as accurate as the following shots |
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RandyM
Junior Member
USA
437 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2012 : 17:36:21
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| Ah, heck - when in doubt, buy more guns! Seriously though, I guess I'd base my decision on whether the trigger job would lower the value of the gun more than it would increase your happiness with it's performance. |
A equals A
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SierraTJ
Junior Member
USA
291 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2012 : 19:08:23
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| +1 vote for no trigger work on a CCW weapon, play with your range/comp guns all you want but leave your carry gun stock. |
I'm married, have 5 kids, 3 Jeeps, and 7 guns and still wonder why I'm always broke.
CBST'd G23 w/ 165gr HST
CBST'd K-T P11 w/ 124gr HST
Sig P250 HD Ready to light my way
Best Quotes from my CCW instructor.
"If he was good enough to shoot once, he is good enough to shoot again"
"Make sure he is DRT, Dead Right There"
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firefighter203
Average Member
USA
530 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2012 : 19:32:08
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| I 2nd the motion on leaving carry gun stock. What you called accidental discharge is actually negligent discharge. Meaning that if the situation arose and your adrenaline is pumping and you squeeze one off by mistake, they will determin you were negligent in your handling of said weapon and will almost 100% chance be charged. Then again you stand a good chance of being charged anyway so do what ever makes your survival the best odds. |
I'd rather be tried by twelve, than carried by six.
Ky. CCDW Instructor |
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rambosky
New Member
USA
84 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2012 : 07:29:14
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quote:
Originally posted by AFP22811
rambosky- its not that i dont trust myself, its that i think a DA/SA gun just makes more sense. IMHO
skiandsky- i'm currently living in oklahoma, but im USAF so i'll be outta here in october. where to? no idea! haha
randym- the first shot more often than not is center of mass, but not as accurate as the following shots
I shot my first 1911 when I joined the Army in 1965. Been shooting IDPA since 2003 on a 1911 platform. My other carry guns aren't DA/SA either. IMHO and past experience DA/SA doesn't make any sense plus a decocking lever? |
"NEVER SHALL I FAIL MY COMRADES" |
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1813Anschutz
Advanced Member
USA
2304 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2012 : 07:48:06
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I carry a 1911 cocked and locked frequently and have NO problem in doing so...no issues with trust in any manner.
Second leave your Sig alone and take the money you would spend on a trigger job and get more ammo and a great holster...just my opinion.
Save some money and get a good 1911 to add to the herd.
Randy |
"The more I shoot,the LUCKIER I seem to get!" |
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DaddyO16
Advanced Member
USA
6026 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2012 : 09:27:38
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quote:
Originally posted by AFP22811
3 - i have heard guys say that they would never modify the trigger on a combat gun. during a defensive scenario, your adrenaline will be jacked and your fine motor skills will go to crap... the longer trigger pull is there for a reason. interesting point.
This. You just answered your own question.
And carrying a QUALITY 1911 cocked and locked is perfectly safe. |
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deadguy
I see dead people
7305 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2012 : 10:41:05
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A long trigger pull is not the same as a heavy trigger pull. You should be able to have the pull lightened, and have the pull remain the same length (check with a gunsmith before taking MY word for it). In a SD situation you would typically not have your finger on the trigger unless you are going to shoot what you are aiming at. If you have to hold someone at gunpoint until LE arrives, and felt better by having your finger on the trigger ready to pull, a heavier pull would indeed be beneficial in keeping you from accidentally firing. However, with enough training and familiarity with that pistol, you would know just how far you could pull before it goes bang, regardless of how heavy or light the trigger is.
You don't have that luxury with a 1911. Most production 1911s are around 4-6 lbs on the pull, with a VERY short length, even with take-up. I personally won't recommend anyone not in the process of shooting something/someone have their finger on the trigger.
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People are getting fatter everyday. 10mm isn't just for bears anymore. |
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Nathan
Big Sky Guy
USA
21630 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2012 : 11:19:45
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| i let sig install a short trigger and a short trigger reset in my 229. it went from being a crappy trigger to a great trigger (in single action). the double action pull still sucks, but all true double action triggers (not referencing triggers utilizing partially pre-cocked strikers such as glock, M&P, etc. which are not double action triggers no matter who tries to claim they are!) suck. |
Nathan In Montana, carrying a Gen4 Glock 19 loaded with Federal 147 grain +P JHPs carried in a Galco King Tuk thats worn on a Wilderness Instructor's belt.
NRA Certified Instructor, Rifle, Shotgun and Pistol
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1813Anschutz
Advanced Member
USA
2304 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2012 : 13:25:47
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So my S&W double action revolvers suck? I think NOT!! They are true double action.
Randy |
"The more I shoot,the LUCKIER I seem to get!" |
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deadguy
I see dead people
7305 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2012 : 13:33:36
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the real trigger solution is to just go 1911. that's my remedy and i'm sticking to it
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People are getting fatter everyday. 10mm isn't just for bears anymore. |
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AFP22811
Starting Member
10 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2012 : 17:54:00
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thanks for the responses guys. seriously, i appreciate the help. i think its the idea of a cocked and locked gun that im just not used to. im sure if i bought a 1911 and carried it cocked and locked for a while, it would gain my trust rather quickly.
i ordered some lighter wolff hammer springs, im going to give them all a try. if i still feel the DA trigger is throwing me off, well im not sure what i'll do.
i went to the range yesterday to practice. i really tried to focus on drawing and making that first DA shot count. results? i had about three misses at 10 yards, 0 misses at 5 yds. of the hits, the vast majority were center of mass, but some were out on the periphery (did i spell that right?) of the target. here is something else that i noticed... i had some misses at ten yards with the SA trigger!!! i guess i was getting so used to the DA, that the SA threw me off???
i love my sig so much, but this is frustrating. it seems like there is not "perfect" combat gun out there. 1911's are cool, but you have a limited magazine and a safety to train around. wouldnt training around a safety be about the same as training around a DA/SA trigger?
i've been considering the sig DAK trigger recently, anyone have any experience with it?
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JBARRETT
Average Member
USA
992 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2012 : 18:03:50
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quote:
Originally posted by AFP22811
i love my sig so much, but this is frustrating. it seems like there is not "perfect" combat gun out there. 1911's are cool, but you have a limited magazine and a safety to train around. wouldnt training around a safety be about the same as training around a DA/SA trigger?
CZ 75 |
USN Veteran "Hooya"
"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it or their revolutionary right to dismember it or overthrow it."
Abraham Lincoln, 4 April 1861
"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace."~ Thomas Paine
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Nathan
Big Sky Guy
USA
21630 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2012 : 18:10:34
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quote:
Originally posted by 1813Anschutz
So my S&W double action revolvers suck?
nope, just the triggers. 
ive never pulled a double action trigger that didnt suck. |
Nathan In Montana, carrying a Gen4 Glock 19 loaded with Federal 147 grain +P JHPs carried in a Galco King Tuk thats worn on a Wilderness Instructor's belt.
NRA Certified Instructor, Rifle, Shotgun and Pistol
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1813Anschutz
Advanced Member
USA
2304 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2012 : 19:09:07
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Better get rid of your 686's and quick.....they are double action and therefore suck.
Randy |
"The more I shoot,the LUCKIER I seem to get!" |
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mattinglyt
Watchdog
USA
11956 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2012 : 22:04:37
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OK, my opinion on this is that you can easily have your trigger smoothed out, but I wouldn't have it lightened too much or at all. Nate's experience with the short trigger and shorter reset is ideal for a sig.
I've smoothed the action on a lot of my pistols and they will smooth some with time as well. Just train with what the pull and get used to it. |
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Nathan
Big Sky Guy
USA
21630 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2012 : 22:51:08
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quote:
Originally posted by 1813Anschutz
Better get rid of your 686's and quick.....they are double action and therefore suck.
they only suck in double action pull. single action pull on the 686 is fantastic. |
Nathan In Montana, carrying a Gen4 Glock 19 loaded with Federal 147 grain +P JHPs carried in a Galco King Tuk thats worn on a Wilderness Instructor's belt.
NRA Certified Instructor, Rifle, Shotgun and Pistol
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1813Anschutz
Advanced Member
USA
2304 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2012 : 05:34:54
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And you are going to single action fire yours in a defensive situation right? In MY opinion having a good double action revolver I have the best of ALL trigger combinations. But then again I am a S&W revolver slut........
Randy |
"The more I shoot,the LUCKIER I seem to get!" |
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hornet
Junior Member
488 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2012 : 14:07:48
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| If I'm the prosecuting attorney, I'm going to make a big deal about the fact that you made modifications to your weapon to make it "easier to shoot". I don't need to use logic, I just need to create confusion and fear in the minds of the jury. Attorneys are paid to make a big deal out of little things and twist reality to suit their case. I think it is Massad Ayoob who actually puts heavier triggers on his Glocks (the 8 lb New York trigger). Personally, I'd buy another carry gun that I can carry stock. |
Whiskey, guns, and hiking. What else is there?
http://www.desertdogjournal.com
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SmokeEater2
Starting Member
USA
11 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2012 : 10:55:39
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quote:
Originally posted by hornet
If I'm the prosecuting attorney, I'm going to make a big deal about the fact that you made modifications to your weapon to make it "easier to shoot". I don't need to use logic, I just need to create confusion and fear in the minds of the jury. Attorneys are paid to make a big deal out of little things and twist reality to suit their case. I think it is Massad Ayoob who actually puts heavier triggers on his Glocks (the 8 lb New York trigger). Personally, I'd buy another carry gun that I can carry stock.
I agree with hornet. If I ever have to use my CCW and the case goes to court or the family decides to sue for the loss of their beloved thug, I don't want the lawyer to be able to feed a jury a load of BS about how I altered a factory gun to made it "deadlier" or something like that.
Especially if my case happens to picked up by the media like Zimmerman's has been.
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Trigger work on a CCW gun?
