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emr454
Junior Member
USA
178 Posts |
 Posted - 07/05/2012 : 19:55:26
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Got the itch to upgrade my daily carry to .40S&W. Can't say I have a real NEED to switch, but would like some more oomph behind my rounds. Currently I carry an XD9sc or a PF9. I can't make up my mind between the S&W SD40, Kahr CW40, or the Springfield XD40sc. Took a look at a S&W SD40 and a Kahr CW40 today at the local gun store. The SD40 looks and feels nice in the hand and was $350 new. The CW40 is a tad smaller and probably easier to conceal, but holds 4 less rounds than the SD and was $50 more. I have no previous experience with either of these guns.
I would like to hear from those that own these guns as far as what you like/dislike, etc. |
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Nathan
Big Sky Guy
USA
21551 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2012 : 20:02:56
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| i see absolutely no advantage to going with .40 over 9mm so long as you shoot the 9mm heavy (147 grains in JHP). none. if i could get my money back i would sell every .40 i own and just keep the 9mm, .45, 357 sig, and 10mm. the more i study the .40 the more i like the 9mm. |
Nathan In Montana, carrying a Gen4 Glock 19 loaded with Federal 147 grain +P JHPs carried in a Galco King Tuk thats worn on a Wilderness Instructor's belt.
NRA Certified Instructor, Rifle, Shotgun and Pistol
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emr454
Junior Member
USA
178 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2012 : 20:06:39
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Nathan,
Are you basing your decision on capacity/weight/size of the guns as compared to the 9mm or ballistics of the round itself? |
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MisterB
Average Member
645 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2012 : 20:10:37
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Honestly, I feel the .40 tries to solve a problem that doesn't exist. It really isn't that much more powerful than a good +p 9mm round in one of the guns you already own, but ammo is more expensive and you can't fit as many rounds in the gun without it being larger than a 9 would be. Yes, you could get good +p .40 ammo, but they're still really close from a ballistic standpoint, and you have the other drawbacks I mentioned.
If you're gonna go bigger, may as well really go bigger and step up to .45, 10mm, 44 mag, etc. |
See, guys like flowers too... |
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firefighter203
Average Member
USA
528 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2012 : 20:28:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Nathan
i see absolutely no advantage to going with .40 over 9mm so long as you shoot the 9mm heavy (147 grains in JHP). none. if i could get my money back i would sell every .40 i own and just keep the 9mm, .45, 357 sig, and 10mm. the more i study the .40 the more i like the 9mm.
Nathan, I'm finding more and more I agree with you. I've locked my .40 cal guns in the secondary safe and now only carry .357 mag, .357Sig, and .45 ACP |
I'd rather be tried by twelve, than carried by six.
Ky. CCDW Instructor |
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Nathan
Big Sky Guy
USA
21551 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2012 : 20:35:19
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quote:
Originally posted by emr454
Are you basing your decision on capacity/weight/size of the guns as compared to the 9mm or ballistics of the round itself?
weight/size of guns is irrelevant since they tend to run in the same guns with different barrels. capacity is a little higher with the 9mm, and ballistically the 147 grain 9mm proves to be the superior penetrator dang near every time. the 180 grain in .40 isnt bad at all and comes closer to the 147 grain 9mm than does the 165 .40.
to be honest, i just dont really see the point in .40 anymore. once upon a time it filled a nice gap between the 125 grain range 9mm and the .45, but the 147 grain 9mm has closed that gap. |
Nathan In Montana, carrying a Gen4 Glock 19 loaded with Federal 147 grain +P JHPs carried in a Galco King Tuk thats worn on a Wilderness Instructor's belt.
NRA Certified Instructor, Rifle, Shotgun and Pistol
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emr454
Junior Member
USA
178 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2012 : 20:41:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Nathan
quote:
Originally posted by emr454
Are you basing your decision on capacity/weight/size of the guns as compared to the 9mm or ballistics of the round itself?
weight/size of guns is irrelevant since they tend to run in the same guns with different barrels. capacity is a little higher with the 9mm, and ballistically the 147 grain 9mm proves to be the superior penetrator dang near every time. the 180 grain in .40 isnt bad at all and comes closer to the 147 grain 9mm than does the 165 .40.
to be honest, i just dont really see the point in .40 anymore. once upon a time it filled a nice gap between the 125 grain range 9mm and the .45, but the 147 grain 9mm has closed that gap.
I see. So if I'm thinking of going bigger and staying around the same size weapon as the XD, maybe I should take a look at a G30/36. I'm sure there are more guns out there that fit the bill but I'd prefer to have no manual safety on my carry gun. |
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MisterB
Average Member
645 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2012 : 20:50:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Nathan
quote:
Originally posted by emr454
Are you basing your decision on capacity/weight/size of the guns as compared to the 9mm or ballistics of the round itself?
weight/size of guns is irrelevant since they tend to run in the same guns with different barrels. capacity is a little higher with the 9mm, and ballistically the 147 grain 9mm proves to be the superior penetrator dang near every time. the 180 grain in .40 isnt bad at all and comes closer to the 147 grain 9mm than does the 165 .40.
to be honest, i just dont really see the point in .40 anymore. once upon a time it filled a nice gap between the 125 grain range 9mm and the .45, but the 147 grain 9mm has closed that gap.
I see your point, but at the same time, you'd be hard pressed to find a .40 that is as small and light with as much carrying capacity as, say a Ruger LC9 9mm. The new XDs .45 is actually pretty darn close, but still bigger and heavier. Every bit counts. Hell, I don't even like carrying with the pinky extension on my LC9 due to the added size lol |
See, guys like flowers too... |
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Waffenmeister
Advanced Member
USA
2159 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2012 : 21:09:53
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You could just go all they way up to .45 ACP maybe... I'm sure if you do that, you won't want to go back!  |
"Ein Sperling in der Hand ist besser als eine Taube auf dem Dach." -German proverb |
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yankeejib
Advanced Member
USA
3031 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2012 : 21:45:45
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| The only reason I carry 40 over 9 because the gun fits my hand better, and I shoot it better. G23 is hard to beat. |
Sincerely,
Professor Stu Padasol
"Doing what others find difficult is talent. Doing what others find impossible is genius."
"Why be difficult when with a little more effort, you can be entirely impossible."
I carry a gun because I can't throw a rock 1250 feet per second.
God did not create all men equal, Sam Colt did.
"The next best thing to being clever is being able to quote someone who is."
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jmhyer
Junior Member
USA
498 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2012 : 22:04:15
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| So, effectiveness of 9 being now similar to .40, maybe you should look at 9's that have more capacity and are at least as easy to carry as your current xd9sc. That opens a lot of doors in my opinion...including my current fav - the m&p9 fullsize...or even the G19 |
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jmhyer
Junior Member
USA
498 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2012 : 22:05:35
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| I sure do love the m&p9 with it's 17+1 capacity! |
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medic68
Master of Mojo
5107 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2012 : 23:47:50
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| In my opinion the G19 is one weapon no one should be without in 9MM. For a smaller BUG you cant beat the G26. I have sold every .40 except for one new in the box unfired PPS. |
"Coimhead fearg fhear na foighde"
   
'It doesn't matter how big a ranch ya' own, or how many cows ya' brand,the size of your funeral is still gonna depend on the weather.' -- Harry Truman.
Sometimes there's justice, sometimes there's just us--- Anonymous
"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." -- Mark Twain
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emr454
Junior Member
USA
178 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2012 : 04:09:06
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quote:
Originally posted by jmhyer
So, effectiveness of 9 being now similar to .40, maybe you should look at 9's that have more capacity and are at least as easy to carry as your current xd9sc. That opens a lot of doors in my opinion...including my current fav - the m&p9 fullsize...or even the G19
Forgot to mention I'm in NY, so 10 rds is the limit for me unfortunately. |
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graceandtruth
Average Member
748 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2012 : 05:45:36
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quote:
Originally posted by emr454
quote:
Originally posted by jmhyer
So, effectiveness of 9 being now similar to .40, maybe you should look at 9's that have more capacity and are at least as easy to carry as your current xd9sc. That opens a lot of doors in my opinion...including my current fav - the m&p9 fullsize...or even the G19
Forgot to mention I'm in NY, so 10 rds is the limit for me unfortunately.
I'm in NY too. I have the G23 (.40). As said here, if I could, I'd go back and swtich the G23 for the G32 (.357sig). If I were you and looking for a new carry gun, I would get the glock 32. |
-G&T
G23 |
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Silent Majority
Junior Member
USA
190 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2012 : 07:47:04
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quote:
Originally posted by emr454
. . .
Forgot to mention I'm in NY, so 10 rds is the limit for me unfortunately.
Well that's 10 more than Illinois allows. :) |
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SZz
New Member
USA
81 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2012 : 08:48:47
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Isn't going to 9mm over .40 against the "Go Heavy" dogma of this site????
After being forced to use a USELESS 9mm Berreta in the miltary for 28 years, I would not OWN a 9mm for ANY reason... carrying 16 rounds is of little use if you have to pump 3-5 rounds in each BG to put them down.
The .40 180 gr is the SMALLEST bullet I would carry...
..and only because the Khar PM40 is the same size as any small 9mm and fits easily in my pocket.
For anything but pocket carry or BUG, I want a .45!!!!! or .454 Casull, or .50 S&W, or... sorry, got carried away... :) |
We prayed to our God and posted a guard…” Nehemiah 4:9
We prayed to our God and packed a piece…” Frank 4:9
Blessed be the LORD my strength which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight... Psalm 144:1 |
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Nathan
Big Sky Guy
USA
21551 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2012 : 10:29:23
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quote:
Originally posted by SZz
Isn't going to 9mm over .40 against the "Go Heavy" dogma of this site????
the concept of go heavy applies to each individual caliber. in other words, i cannot tell you that .45 is better for your individual needs than say, 9mm...but i can tell you that 147 grain 9mm will penetrate deeper and expand larger than 125 grain 9mm. i cannot tell you that .40 is better for your individual needs than is .38 special, but i can tell you that 180 grain .40 will penetrate deeper than 165 grain .40, and i can tell you that 158 grain .38 special will penetrate deeper than 125 grain .38 special. etc. this of course, being apples to apples comparisons. assuming service caliber i cannot tell you what caliber to choose, but whatever caliber you choose, go heavy for best ballistic performance. |
Nathan In Montana, carrying a Gen4 Glock 19 loaded with Federal 147 grain +P JHPs carried in a Galco King Tuk thats worn on a Wilderness Instructor's belt.
NRA Certified Instructor, Rifle, Shotgun and Pistol
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firefighter203
Average Member
USA
528 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2012 : 10:35:30
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| I've got the G23. It's my primary carry gun but I switched to the .357Sig barrel effectively making it a G32. |
I'd rather be tried by twelve, than carried by six.
Ky. CCDW Instructor |
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SKIandSKY
Average Member
USA
831 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2012 : 13:09:18
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I am not a huge .40 fan, due more to circumstance than anything else. A friend loaned me his Kahr .CW 45 with the P45 trigger upgrade and I love it. I carry it in his beltslide holster and it is really cool. 6+1 of 230 grain hydroshocks. My other carry piece is a Kahr P9 Covert and I await a Fist Holster Universal that is made for Crimson Trace Lasergrips.
Kahrs are slim, light, easy recoiling, and the triggers are long but smooth and easy. Just what she said....LoL
If you could, try out a Kahr 45. Same size as a S&W 442 and much more powerful.
Good luck. |
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Tye
Junior Member
404 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2012 : 13:44:14
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How about the beretta NANO in .40 (if it ever comes out) and Charter Arms Pitbull Revolver, also in .40? I'm a big advocate of the "2 for 1 purchase". I do have an affection for the .40 S&W (primarily use 165gr). That being said, I also have confidence in my 9mm guns loaded with 147gr.
Hey, maybe when Obamma starts enforcing the UN Small Arms Treaty/Weapons Ban (regardless of ratification) us .40S&W owners won't have to immediately surrender our handguns, vrs. the "Military" 9mm NATO platforms that will be sooner classified as "evil military guns" of war.
BR, |
Tye |
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modernswords
Junior Member
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2012 : 17:01:47
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Any bullet that will not penetrate through vital organs at less than optimal angles is unacceptable. Of those that will penetrate, the edge is always with the bigger bullet.
http://www.firearmstactical.com/pdf/fbi-hwfe.pdf |
 
"...he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one."
“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”- Amendment II, U.S. Constitution |
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Nathan
Big Sky Guy
USA
21551 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2012 : 17:40:50
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quote:
Originally posted by modernswords
the edge is always with the bigger bullet.
while i do agree with this, keep in mind that just because it starts out bigger doesnt necessary mean it will still be bigger after both expand. for example, the federal HST 147 grain 9mm penetrates (bare gelatin) in excess of 13" while expanding to .72". thats simply incredible, and actually rivals many loadings in .45.
.40 isnt a "bad" load by any means and i wont hesitate to carry it...its just not what it once was (the logical step between 9mm and .45) and i dont see a point in it, anymore....not with the great leaps 9mm ballistics have had. |
Nathan In Montana, carrying a Gen4 Glock 19 loaded with Federal 147 grain +P JHPs carried in a Galco King Tuk thats worn on a Wilderness Instructor's belt.
NRA Certified Instructor, Rifle, Shotgun and Pistol
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modernswords
Junior Member
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2012 : 17:52:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Nathan
quote:
Originally posted by emr454
Are you basing your decision on capacity/weight/size of the guns as compared to the 9mm or ballistics of the round itself?
weight/size of guns is irrelevant since they tend to run in the same guns with different barrels. capacity is a little higher with the 9mm, and ballistically the 147 grain 9mm proves to be the superior penetrator dang near every time. the 180 grain in .40 isnt bad at all and comes closer to the 147 grain 9mm than does the 165 .40.
to be honest, i just dont really see the point in .40 anymore. once upon a time it filled a nice gap between the 125 grain range 9mm and the .45, but the 147 grain 9mm has closed that gap.
Maybe I missed it somewhere, but if not mentioned:
It is important to note thst the construction of any bullet is often more important than weight alone. A Speer Gold Dot vs a Hornady XTP or Remington GS or Winchester silvertip will have variations in penetration and expansion characteristics. There are 124 grain bullets that I would rather load than certain 147s. |
"...he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one."
“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”- Amendment II, U.S. Constitution |
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JBARRETT
Average Member
USA
979 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2012 : 18:00:06
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I agree with nathan on this. I have 9m and .40s only. No .45s. But I would rather carry any of my 9ms than any of my .40s. When .40 was all I had thats what I carried, but with 147grain HST I can comfortably say I have no need to upgrade. When I take into account for the additional space, weight and price (and I reload) there is no way I can even consider practicing regularly like I can with my 9mm.
Much in the same way I cannot justify moving from .223 to 7.62 in my rifles. Although I do plan on having the option shortly (deciding to start building a 300 blackout or bigger), I cant justify switching completely to the larger and more expensive for everyday uses. |
USN Veteran "Hooya"
"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it or their revolutionary right to dismember it or overthrow it."
Abraham Lincoln, 4 April 1861
"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace."~ Thomas Paine
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modernswords
Junior Member
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2012 : 18:28:38
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| Another consideration (that is no. 1 in my book) is making sure that whatever (acceptable penetrating) load is chosen, it MUST function 100% in your gun. I have come across a few 9mms that had issues with reliability when using 147 grain bullets. One was a Kel Tec P11... |
"...he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one."
“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”- Amendment II, U.S. Constitution |
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Thinking about upgrading to a .40
