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Tim
Junior Member
302 Posts |
 Posted - 07/16/2012 : 13:46:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Nathan thats simply incredible, and actually rivals many loadings in .45.
Nathan, given the 9mm advantage of much more capacity, doesn't it also close the gap with 45 as well? It seems to me the only reason to shoot 45 is if you like 1911's. And even then, wouldn't the 10mm be a better choice in that platform? |
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nmuskier01
Senior Member
USA
1845 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2012 : 14:27:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Nathan
while i do agree with this, keep in mind that just because it starts out bigger doesnt necessary mean it will still be bigger after both expand. for example, the federal HST 147 grain 9mm penetrates (bare gelatin) in excess of 13" while expanding to .72". thats simply incredible, and actually rivals many loadings in .45.
Don't betray years of pragmatic, data based logic by comparing 9mm HST to "other" .45 loads. How does 9mm, .40, and .45 HST compare?
Yes, bigger is still better.
Geez, sometimes 9mm fans seem as bad as the Glock fans!  |
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5lima30ret@gmail.com
Junior Member
USA
260 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2012 : 17:12:07
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| I also have to agree with Nathan on this one! There is no significant advantage for a civilian in going with a .40 over a 9mm (with proper ammunition). One of the main reasons law enforcement switched to .40 was that .40 works better with barriers than 9mm. I have seen first hand 9mm's deflect and NOT penetrate car windshields. This would not be a concern for civilian ccw. JMHO. |
Retired Police Lieutenant, Retired USAF Reserve, Glock Armorer "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." Phil 4:13 |
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modernswords
Junior Member
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2012 : 17:47:54
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quote:
Originally posted by nmuskier01
quote:
Originally posted by Nathan
while i do agree with this, keep in mind that just because it starts out bigger doesnt necessary mean it will still be bigger after both expand. for example, the federal HST 147 grain 9mm penetrates (bare gelatin) in excess of 13" while expanding to .72". thats simply incredible, and actually rivals many loadings in .45.
Don't betray years of pragmatic, data based logic by comparing 9mm HST to "other" .45 loads. How does 9mm, .40, and .45 HST compare?
Yes, bigger is still better.
Geez, sometimes 9mm fans seem as bad as the Glock fans!
Agreed. I believe what we have here is credit to the ammunition manufacturers for striving to make better bullets/products. I liken it to rifle hunting bullets. A standard 30-06 load 30 years ago would have a huge performance disadvantage on large, heavy game compared to something like a bonded or copper x-bullet produced today. A .40 180 grain HST is till better than a 9mm 147 grain HST. The difference is that the 9mm is MUCH improved over what was available over 20 years ago for the round. |
 
"...he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one."
“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”- Amendment II, U.S. Constitution |
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GlockASA
New Member
USA
72 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2012 : 17:56:06
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Federal HST 180gr .40 S&W expands .74" and penetrates 13 inches in this test by tnoutdoors9.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWy2AB_AQYo
In terms of both expansion and penetration the 9mm +p 147 gr HST expanded .70" and penetrated 11.25 inches.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i67WILeK66Y
The 147gr standard pressure 9mm HST expanded .66" and 13.25 inches penetration in his ballistics media.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNRqrJRq4T0&feature=relmfu
With that said, heavy loads for both calibers will certainly do the job. If you feel more comfortable with a few extra rounds of 9mm, have at it. Same goes for the perceived benefits of the .40 S&W. Bottom line, make sure you are proficient with your carry weapon of choice and the nitpicking between the top loads of each caliber becomes essentially moot for most civilian uses.
I carry a Glock 23, loaded with 13+1 180gr HST, I would feel just as comfortable with 15+1 147gr HST in a Glock 19.
Level II and IIA body armor will stop just about every handgun round (.40 and 9mm included). It isn't until you get up to .357sig rounds and .44 magnum rounds (which can be stopped by Level IIIA and higher body armor.) that there is a noticble difference in power.
At least there is no debating the quality of a 12-gauge for home defense.
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Gen 4 Glock 23 loaded with Federal HST 180 grain .40 S&W
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nmuskier01
Senior Member
USA
1845 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2012 : 20:30:49
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quote:
Originally posted by GlockASA
Federal HST 180gr .40 S&W expands .74" and penetrates 13 inches in this test by tnoutdoors9.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWy2AB_AQYo
In terms of both expansion and penetration the 9mm +p 147 gr HST expanded .70" and penetrated 11.25 inches.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i67WILeK66Y
The 147gr standard pressure 9mm HST expanded .66" and 13.25 inches penetration in his ballistics media.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNRqrJRq4T0&feature=relmfu
With that said, heavy loads for both calibers will certainly do the job. If you feel more comfortable with a few extra rounds of 9mm, have at it. Same goes for the perceived benefits of the .40 S&W. Bottom line, make sure you are proficient with your carry weapon of choice and the nitpicking between the top loads of each caliber becomes essentially moot for most civilian uses.
I carry a Glock 23, loaded with 13+1 180gr HST, I would feel just as comfortable with 15+1 147gr HST in a Glock 19.
Level II and IIA body armor will stop just about every handgun round (.40 and 9mm included). It isn't until you get up to .357sig rounds and .44 magnum rounds (which can be stopped by Level IIIA and higher body armor.) that there is a noticble difference in power.
At least there is no debating the quality of a 12-gauge for home defense.
...and we're done!  |
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SKIandSKY
Average Member
USA
831 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2012 : 23:21:45
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I carried a Kahr CW45 (P45 "elite" trigger job) all day today in a Mitch Rosen belt slide holster. I don't even notice it anymore.
I did however read somewhere once how a .40 caliber had really good one-shot stop records in about all loadings. That was in print years ago when I used to buy a gun magazine every two weeks.
For myself however, I think I'll stick with .45 for summer carry on the belt, my 9mm Kahr for "deep carry" when concealment overrides speed of draw, and then later get a 1911 or "combat" Hi Power when winter comes and I have the money for either.
I have also decided, base on this site, stuff I've read, physics, and tnoutdoors9 youtube videos that "heavy for caliber" is the way to go. So 147 grain and 230 grain Gold Dots in my 9mm and .45's.
If YOU though, want to get a .40 for carry, DO SO. It has very good one-shot stop actual shootings and can be shot well. |
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Thinking about upgrading to a .40
