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levy1
Starting Member
USA
29 Posts |
 Posted - 08/01/2012 : 19:20:32
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Been thinking about it for years. Had two 9MM's 30 years ago. Went to the range and fired several 380's thinking I need small to carry in my waistband. The only one that fit my hand fit without the pinky below the magazine, (which did not feel solid to me) was the Walther 380. Even though it shot low I had a nice pattern. The smaller 380's were all over the place and it was explained to me they were jumping around in my hand because they did not fit.
Went to the gun store today to buy the Walther and just happened to ask in there was a 9MM the same size as the Walther and was shown a Ruger LC9.I see the Ruger recoil is about 5 times more powerful then the 380's, but the gun itself looks about the same size as the Walther and in addition has the rounded features for CCW IWB. The only problem I have is the LC9 is just a hare shorter in my hand giving a little and I mean very little squeeze to my pinky finger. Maybe I will get used to it. Please give me suggestions on the purchase of these two guns.
If you like the LC 9 can you suggest a IWB holster as the salesman looked for about 45 min and the two he showed me did not fit like I thought they should.
What should I buy to take a gun to the range? I see soft range cases and should I buy a small $50 safe. I am a single parent of a 16 year old. thank you |
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samuelrp
Senior Member
USA
1893 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2012 : 20:04:40
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| Get yourself a 9mm. There are plenty of options for you to look at. Midway USA has a nice range bag for your accessories and gun(s). And yes, a safe is a very good idea with Jr around. Welcome to the forum. |
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levy1
Starting Member
USA
29 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2012 : 20:28:58
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| Thank you, the Otis system looks good as they did not have a good selection in the store. I need to find out about holsters. |
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rap77
Junior Member
USA
178 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2012 : 20:31:03
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[quote]Originally posted by samuelrp
Get yourself a 9mm.
+1 |
S&W 357 mag
keltec pf9 and p11
The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' "
-- Ronald Reagan
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nmuskier01
Senior Member
USA
1845 Posts |
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levy1
Starting Member
USA
29 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2012 : 21:07:50
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| The PPS looks very close in size and weight. Is it worth $200 more? |
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SKIandSKY
Average Member
USA
831 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2012 : 22:11:57
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| Good call on the 9mm. Practice, practice, practice, EAR AND EYE PROTECTION WHEN SHOOTING. Plenty of good info here for you. |
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RandyM
Junior Member
USA
437 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2012 : 04:00:30
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We have an LC9. I use a High Noon Split Decision when I believe I may have to move the holster along my waist, and a Tommy Theis hybrid holster for most instances. I feel the Theis is more comfortable for longer wear, but both are great. There are many brands of that hybrid style; I just like Tommy and go with him. Our Theis for the LC9 is cowhide, and for our PX4 is horsehide. I'd spend extra on the horsehide next time I buy one; it feels better against my skin when it's hot and humid.
Get a couple extra magazines and experiment with whether you like the pinky extension or not. I shoot it better without it, but your mileage may vary. Get some dummy rounds and practice with lots of dry fire to get used to the trigger. I painted the front sight to make it pop more, but that's not for all. I also added a Pachmyr grip, which gives it a nicer feel in my hand.
We found a small range bag from a local sporting goods store for about $20; it fits all 3 handguns, a couple hundred rounds, eyes/ears/hats for 2: nothing fancy. Don't forget something you can secure it in a car with; we use the key-locked Gun Vault boxes, but there are others.
Best of luck, and enjoy it!
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A equals A
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levy1
Starting Member
USA
29 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2012 : 05:11:24
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Don't forget something you can secure it in a car with; we use the key-locked Gun Vault boxes, but there are others.
I am a new member and have not taken my CCW course yet buy why do I need to secure a weapon in the car?
I did a search on Tommy and cannot find where to buy. |
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sliptap
Starting Member
USA
22 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2012 : 05:37:26
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Levy,
I own a Kahr CW9 and do not have enough great things to say. They are VERY slim for a 9mm, fit well in the hand, and are accurate. I believe their prices are still around $400, which is a great deal. In MY opinion, the Kahr is a lot better gun than the Ruger LC9. If you're looking for a smaller version, Kahr makes an even smaller CM9, the size of which is competitively close to some of the pocket .380's out there.
I have read many reviews that the LC9 is an average pistol and does not have a good trigger. Everything I have read about the Walther PPS is positive, but that was a while ago so take it with a grain of salt! I am curious how the dimensions of the PPS stack against the Kahr. The Kahr looks smaller in person but that could be a trick of the eye.
My own CCW advice: find a gun that you can SHOOT. A gun is simply a tool and if you can't use it properly, what good is it to you?
My advice on .380's (in relation to this forum): just don't. People don't take kindly to discussions about them (read sticky). 9mm is a lot more potent of a round, so feel comfortable that you're purchasing a decent caliber. |
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levy1
Starting Member
USA
29 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2012 : 05:53:36
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I found the Tommy site.
Thank you for the info. I am going to the range today and will shoot that model if they have it. There are only three ranges in Columbus Ohio so they are somewhat limited it product. |
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SKIandSKY
Average Member
USA
831 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2012 : 10:15:25
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sliptap is dead on about the Kahr. Right this moment the now discontinued Kahr P9 "Covert" rides in my new Fist kydex holster.
After looking into the High Noon Holsters, I could see one of those on my hip...
Why stop at 9mm? Kahr's P45 is only 1/2" longer than my P9 and 1" taller! Width is only about 0.25" more. Capacity is the same as my Covert, 6+1. 7 rounds of .45 in a super comfortable handgun? It's a no brainer.
I would like to get the Kahr PM9 for "deep carry" in Thunderwear or Smart Carry, keep the Covert because it's so slick, and get a P45 for belt slide carry, in summertime. Winter I might carry a 1911 or Hi Power but really, the P45 is enough for winter too.
A snub nosed .38 would do well in an ankle holster but considering my awesomeness with the Kahr and awesomeness in general, I don't really need a backup. LOL |
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nmuskier01
Senior Member
USA
1845 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2012 : 12:07:05
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quote:
Originally posted by levy1
The PPS looks very close in size and weight. Is it worth $200 more?
Yes, the PPS is more. About $500-540 is fair. Over $550 is too much, under 500 is a BUY NOW (after inspection) deal. Look for one that begins with serial # BA (the letters are the date code to ensure you get a newer version).
If saving money is your goal, HiPoint makes a 9mm that is more than $200 less than the LC9. I saw a Bryco for $100.  I would NOT consider these two makers for a defensive pistol.
There's something to be said about the additional money you put into a gun. S&W released the SD series at a low price point. It's not a bad gun, but it's no M&P. The LC9 is not a bad gun. It's no PPS.  |
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RandyM
Junior Member
USA
437 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2012 : 17:56:26
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quote:
Originally posted by levy1
Don't forget something you can secure it in a car with; we use the key-locked Gun Vault boxes, but there are others.
I am a new member and have not taken my CCW course yet buy why do I need to secure a weapon in the car?
You'll end up at a place that does not allow carrying a handgun (post office & city hall for example). The lock box, with an attached cable wrapped around the seat mount, gives an added measure of securing the handgun from break-ins. Car windows are tough, but not as tough as a hammer. If someone breaks in your window, it'll be much hardest to take your gun than if you just have it in a glovebox. |
A equals A
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SKIandSKY
Average Member
USA
831 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2012 : 22:35:10
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Levy1,
A car "lock box" is a sound idea but in my opinion, a wee bit of an overkill. I doubt seriously, you'll be in the post office that long.
Get that if you want, but it's not something I plan to invest in. Right now your priorties might be decide on caliber, gun, holster, spare ammo, accessories (light, knife, pepper spray...if those appeal to you), laws regarding carry and defense, CCW course, practice, etc. You'll likely evolve through several gun, caliber, and holster choices until you settle on something long term. Mindset is most important. |
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levy1
Starting Member
USA
29 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2012 : 14:49:12
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| Shot about 200 rounds yesterday. Could not get a great pattern with the LC9. Trigger has me off. Fired the clock compact 9 with a dual stack mag. Best accuracy with this weapon. The Kahr was awesome and again I had a better pattern then the LC9. Loved the Kahr but it is to heavy to me. The glock is to expensive. This makes the LC just right. Kept playing around with the trigger and finally was able to pull it back a ways before my hands anticipated and moved which results in a poor pattern. Tried a cheap $200 range 9M gun and did not like it. Became more comfortable with the LC 9. I want to like it as it is in my price range and size is good for CCW. Fired the S&W compact 9 today. It was murder getting the ammo in the double stack. It shot OK but is to thick. They did not have the LC to fire. Bought a range bag, 600 rounds practice ammo, eye and ear protection. Will not have the LC 9 until the 7th when I clear the background check. I think I am going to like the LC but I am going to keep testing as I can always change the weapon. I really like the look and viedo of the Tommy holster. Need a speed loader. Any suggestions on these items or guns would be appreciated. Thanks |
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zonker1986
Advanced Member
USA
8192 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2012 : 15:11:34
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quote:
Originally posted by levy1
Shot about 200 rounds yesterday. Could not get a great pattern with the LC9. Trigger has me off. Fired the clock compact 9 with a dual stack mag. Best accuracy with this weapon. The Kahr was awesome and again I had a better pattern then the LC9. Loved the Kahr but it is to heavy to me. The glock is to expensive. This makes the LC just right. Kept playing around with the trigger and finally was able to pull it back a ways before my hands anticipated and moved which results in a poor pattern. Tried a cheap $200 range 9M gun and did not like it. Became more comfortable with the LC 9. I want to like it as it is in my price range and size is good for CCW. Fired the S&W compact 9 today. It was murder getting the ammo in the double stack. It shot OK but is to thick. They did not have the LC to fire. Bought a range bag, 600 rounds practice ammo, eye and ear protection. Will not have the LC 9 until the 7th when I clear the background check. I think I am going to like the LC but I am going to keep testing as I can always change the weapon. I really like the look and viedo of the Tommy holster. Need a speed loader. Any suggestions on these items or guns would be appreciated. Thanks
the Kahr CW9 is lighter than the LC9...assume you were shooting an all steel Kahr? The CW9 is around $375 on the internet such as Davidsons or www.budsgunshop.com. Love my CW9. I am not a fan of the Ruger simply because its just a knock off of the Keltec PF-9 with added safeties and huge loaded chamber indicator. The PF-9 is a brute to shoot as it weighs only 12oz unloaded, but can be mastered if you take the time. Cost is between $250 and $300 depending on where you shop. I have a couple and advise the PF-9 in Hard Chrome....looks way better.
Please realize that these little 9mm's are not range kings, and will never give you the shooting pleasure that some of the larger full size weapons will. They are designed to be easy to carry, and accurate at self defense distances. They meet that need very well.
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...7 Round Mag Limit? Silly Politicians!! |
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levy1
Starting Member
USA
29 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2012 : 15:33:14
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the Kahr CW9 is lighter than the LC9...assume you were shooting an all steel Kahr? The CW9 is around $375 on the internet such as Davidsons or www.budsgunshop.com. Love my CW9. I am not a fan of the Ruger simply because its just a knock off of the Keltec PF-9 with added safeties and huge loaded chamber indicator. The PF-9 is a brute to shoot as it weighs only 12oz unloaded, but can be mastered if you take the time. Cost is between $250 and $300 depending on where you shop. I have a couple and advise the PF-9 in Hard Chrome....looks way better.
Please realize that these little 9mm's are not range kings, and will never give you the shooting pleasure that some of the larger full size weapons will. They are designed to be easy to carry, and accurate at self defense distances. They meet that need very well.
Yes I was shooting the all steel P9 Kahr. I would think my shot pattern would be worse with the CW 9 if it is lighter then the LC 9. I do not mind paying a little more for better quality. My LC is in layaway waiting on BR check the 7th. One problem is I cannot find a CW 9 to test.
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levy1
Starting Member
USA
29 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2012 : 15:39:22
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quote:
Originally posted by SKIandSKY
Levy1,
A car "lock box" is a sound idea but in my opinion, a wee bit of an overkill. I doubt seriously, you'll be in the post office that long.
Get that if you want, but it's not something I plan to invest in. Right now your priorties might be decide on caliber, gun, holster, spare ammo, accessories (light, knife, pepper spray...if those appeal to you), laws regarding carry and defense, CCW course, practice, etc. You'll likely evolve through several gun, caliber, and holster choices until you settle on something long term. Mindset is most important.
Please tell me about the lite, knife, and pepper spray. I never thought about it. What to buy and where to use it? |
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levy1
Starting Member
USA
29 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2012 : 15:40:54
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| CCW class next Thursday, training on how to shoot a week from thursday. |
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Will R.
Junior Member
USA
239 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2012 : 15:44:48
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quote:
Originally posted by levy1
Shot about 200 rounds yesterday. Could not get a great pattern with the LC9. Trigger has me off. Fired the clock compact 9 with a dual stack mag. Best accuracy with this weapon. The Kahr was awesome and again I had a better pattern then the LC9. Loved the Kahr but it is to heavy to me. The glock is to expensive. This makes the LC just right. Kept playing around with the trigger and finally was able to pull it back a ways before my hands anticipated and moved which results in a poor pattern. Tried a cheap $200 range 9M gun and did not like it. Became more comfortable with the LC 9. I want to like it as it is in my price range and size is good for CCW. Fired the S&W compact 9 today. It was murder getting the ammo in the double stack. It shot OK but is to thick. They did not have the LC to fire. Bought a range bag, 600 rounds practice ammo, eye and ear protection. Will not have the LC 9 until the 7th when I clear the background check. I think I am going to like the LC but I am going to keep testing as I can always change the weapon. I really like the look and viedo of the Tommy holster. Need a speed loader. Any suggestions on these items or guns would be appreciated. Thanks
Two suggestions for you.
One:
Get some handgun training ASAP. Your post shows how little you know.
Check with your local NRA chapter. Please. They've got great beginner handgun safety courses. And join the NRA if you want to keep your firearms, it costs about the same as a box of ammo.
Two:
Don't look for a "deal" for a handgun you might need to protect your life or your family's.
Spend whatever it takes to get the most reliable and accurate sidearm you can.
Good luck.
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"Do your duty in all things. You cannot do more, you should never wish to do less".
General Robert E. Lee
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zonker1986
Advanced Member
USA
8192 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2012 : 18:35:01
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quote:
Originally posted by levy1
Yes I was shooting the all steel P9 Kahr. I would think my shot pattern would be worse with the CW 9 if it is lighter then the LC 9. I do not mind paying a little more for better quality. My LC is in layaway waiting on BR check the 7th. One problem is I cannot find a CW 9 to test.
LC9 is a good reliable pistol, but I do like my little CW9. Cool looking little gun, and as accurate as you need for close range work.
Since I carry my Kahrs as second backup guns, long range work is not an issue for me. Paid $325 for my CW9 like new in the box used.
Don't get too hung up on your groups right now. If you can dump a mag center mass of a man size target at seven yards, you're fine. Self defense shooting is about winning the gun fight, not about how tight your groups are.
A good NRA pistol course does sound like a good idea. Most gun stores offer classes by certified NRA instructors, and am pretty sure that they offer defensive handgun classes that would be great for you right now in this stage of obtaining your CCW. |
...7 Round Mag Limit? Silly Politicians!! |
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levy1
Starting Member
USA
29 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2012 : 19:02:59
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quote:
Originally posted by zonker1986
quote:
Originally posted by levy1
Yes I was shooting the all steel P9 Kahr. I would think my shot pattern would be worse with the CW 9 if it is lighter then the LC 9. I do not mind paying a little more for better quality. My LC is in layaway waiting on BR check the 7th. One problem is I cannot find a CW 9 to test.
LC9 is a good reliable pistol, but I do like my little CW9. Cool looking little gun, and as accurate as you need for close range work.
Since I carry my Kahrs as second backup guns, long range work is not an issue for me. Paid $325 for my CW9 like new in the box used.
Don't get too hung up on your groups right now. If you can dump a mag center mass of a man size target at seven yards, you're fine. Self defense shooting is about winning the gun fight, not about how tight your groups are.
A good NRA pistol course does sound like a good idea. Most gun stores offer classes by certified NRA instructors, and am pretty sure that they offer defensive handgun classes that would be great for you right now in this stage of obtaining your CCW.
Just returned from the gun store. I need to decide by Tuesday or possibly Monday. I really like the Kahr CW9 in my hand. No safety, is that a problem? I will shoot it tomorrow along with a Glock 26, which I think is to big, and a Sig 938 which is too expensive but doable if it felt and shot that much better. I will include the LC 9 again.
Why is the LC9 a second backup for you and what is your first? |
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zonker1986
Advanced Member
USA
8192 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2012 : 20:22:53
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quote:
Originally posted by levy1
[Why is the LC9 a second backup for you and what is your first?
never leave the house without one of these two. I shoot them fast and very well considering my failing eye sight, and they are as durable as nails which you appreciate after having your carry gun look like its been drug behind the back of a truck just from normal wear and tear. Glocks are different.
The Glock 26 is actually only a couple of ounces more than the LC9 unloaded, but holds 12+1 with the Glock factory mags with finger extensions which makes it feel much heavier than the Ruger...its those extra six rounds. It is only about .1" thicker than the LC9.
My regular Backup gun is a Keltec PF-9 because mine works very well.
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...7 Round Mag Limit? Silly Politicians!! |
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levy1
Starting Member
USA
29 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2012 : 20:35:02
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quote:
Originally posted by zonker1986
quote:
Originally posted by levy1
[Why is the LC9 a second backup for you and what is your first?
never leave the house without one of these two. I shoot them fast and very well considering my failing eye sight, and they are as durable as nails which you appreciate after having your carry gun look like its been drug behind the back of a truck just from normal wear and tear. Glocks are different.
The Glock 26 is actually only a couple of ounces more than the LC9 unloaded, but holds 12+1 with the Glock factory mags with finger extensions which makes it feel much heavier than the Ruger...its those extra six rounds. It is only about .1" thicker than the LC9.
My regular Backup gun is a Keltec PF-9 because mine works very well.
The salesman showed me the 26 with finger extensions. Gald you reminded me as I doubt the rental gun has the extension. It looks too big to me for a CCW IWB carry. |
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zonker1986
Advanced Member
USA
8192 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2012 : 22:13:07
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quote:
Originally posted by levy1
The salesman showed me the 26 with finger extensions. Gald you reminded me as I doubt the rental gun has the extension. It looks too big to me for a CCW IWB carry.
you can conceal any gun if you dress around it. I agree 100% that the LC9 will much easier to conceal because it is thinner than the Glocks. The thinner the pistol, the easier it is to carry without discomfort or printing. The width of the pistol is IMO, the most important part of selecting a weapon for concealed carry. Me and my Glocks have history together, and I take great comfort in carrying a gun that I know will perform when I need it the most. Been shooting a Glock 19 and 26 since 1995 (not the same guns) and have never had a failure of any kind.
I say you are on the right road. Buy a gun that you can carry 24/7 no matter your mode of dress and won't leave at home or in the car when you find you may need it the most. I know several shooters that have the LC9 and have nothing but positive things to say about them....except the trigger is very long. That's to be expected from a small CCW pistol. Kind of a built in safety feature so that the gun only goes bang when you definitely want it to. You'll get used to it.
here are a few guns that you may be of interest down the road that are similar in size and function of the LC9. However, none have manual safety's like the LC9. All are single stack 9mm's like the LC9 and I own them because they are so thin and go places my Glocks just can't due to their width. I'm a fan of front pants pocket carry for my second gun and the only ones I can use in that role are my Keltec PF-9 and Kahr CM9...the others are too long and too tall to fit in the pocket without printing.
Bersa BP 9CC - 8+1 9mm - 19oz -excellent gun from Argentina - My favorite
Walther PPS 7+1 9mm - great shooter, grip is not real comfy
Kahr CW9 - 7+1 9mm -15 oz - I like Kahrs, how they feel, how they shoot.
Kahr CM9 6+1 9mm - 14oz
Keltec PF-9 7+1 9mm - 12oz - takes some practice to learn to handle the nasty recoil and prone to limp wristing failures. I have had no problems and is my regular backup to my Glocks. If you are recoil sensitive, do not bother with this gun.
Diamondback DB9 9mm 11oz (don't own this gun, but its really small and has had very mixed reviews with some reliability problems)
Smith & Wesson M&P Sheild 9mm or 40SW - (don't own one but they look to be a quality firearm - it does come with a manual safety)
Beretta Nano 9mm - this gun is well built, and gets top reviews - I just don't care for the way the gun feels--very chunky feeling.
Good luck my friend. Hope any of this was informative. If not, I enjoyed the conversation anyway.
Zonk. |
...7 Round Mag Limit? Silly Politicians!! |
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Education of a new CCW prospect, need help
