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danez71
New Member
93 Posts |
 Posted - 01/17/2009 : 15:23:48
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quote:
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too caustic for guns, imo.
this is exactly what im looking for. is your disagreement due to anything tangible or is it an unsubstantiated opinion.
thanks,
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I like brake cleaner for cleaning rotors, not guns.
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dont use gunscrubber. put a can of it beside a can of non-chlorinated brake cleaner and youll find theyre one in the same.
[quote]anything made of plastic or wood they'll do a job on
[quote]again, have you anything specific to substantiate that? modern brake parts are full of plastic and rubber parts that are of lesser quality than the polymer used in modern gun frames and yet they are unaffected by brake cleaner.
I'm not chemical engineer but gun scrubber solvent/degreaser and non-chlorinated brake cleaner appear to be NOT the same thing.
Data sheet for gunscrubber = http://www.birchwoodcasey.com/sport/msdspdfs/33235-GSA9.pdf
you may notice that it DOES NOT list acetone as one of the ingredients.
Whereas Valvoline/Pyrol data sheet for non-chloricated brake cleaner located here http://msds.ashland.com/msds-ext/msdsDownload.do?method=getMsdsDocKeys&hc=materialSearchHC&id=2 on page 4 shows acetone as an ingredient (if the page doesnt come up search for the msds sheet for product 4003)
And this page for the same Valvoline stuff specifically states that it may be harmful to plastics and to protect rubber and painted surfaces http://www.valvoline.com/products/Non-chlorinated%20Brake%20Parts%20Cleaner.pdf
Another non-chlorinated brake cleaner http://www.wd-wpp.com/specsheet/579sheet.pdf which also states to protect plastic, rubber and painted surfaces
It also contains acetone http://216.81.211.106/MSDSweb/000097D5.pdf
This site also lists several brake cleaners; both NON-chlorinated and Chlorinated for several different brands (probably just labeled differently). http://www.wd-wpp.com/msds.php (search for brake cleaner in the 2nd field)
ALL of the NON-chlorinated brake cleaners listed HAVE acetone and NONE of the Chlorinated cleaners contain acetone.
Chemicals are funny things... and "plastic" is too generic. One chemical may destroy one plastic but make another stronger.
"lesser quality", the way its stated, doesnt mean anything. Its what specific chemical and which specific "plastic" that matters.
Acetone, commonly used in nail polish remover, can and will harm SOME plastics, rubber, paint, etc.... but not all. It depends on the chemical make up of each.
Gun Scrubber and non-chlorinated brake cleaner are NOT the same as shown by the DATA provided.
Can we all say "Myth Busted" now? At least to the idea that gun scrubber and non-chlorinated brake cleaners are the same? |
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COCounselor
Junior Member
USA
311 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2009 : 15:36:30
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| I tried to do an internet search for a list of components but best I could find was non-alkaline but no specific ingredients per se. Was kind of hoping there would be an itemized list of ingredients like I find on a cereal box...lol. |
Teri
"To disarm the people is the most effectual way to enslave them."--George Mason
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Nathan
Big Sky Guy
USA
21543 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2009 : 16:33:53
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quote:
Originally posted by danez71
Gun Scrubber and non-chlorinated brake cleaner are NOT the same as shown by the DATA provided.
Can we all say "Myth Busted" now? At least to the idea that gun scrubber and non-chlorinated brake cleaners are the same?
no. the brand you listed may be different. ill do some digging after ive time to dig for the information to use in my response to dan in another thread. in the meantime, if you dont want to use it by all means dont. im not trying to convince anyone to use my methods. my methods work very well for me and none of my guns has melted yet. |
Nathan In Montana, carrying a Gen4 Glock 19 loaded with Federal 147 grain +P JHPs carried in a Galco King Tuk thats worn on a Wilderness Instructor's belt.
NRA Certified Instructor, Rifle, Shotgun and Pistol
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danez71
New Member
93 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2009 : 18:39:04
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quote:
Originally posted by COCounselor
I tried to do an internet search for a list of components but best I could find was non-alkaline but no specific ingredients per se. Was kind of hoping there would be an itemized list of ingredients like I find on a cereal box...lol.
The ingredients are usually found in the MSDS sheet of which I provided from the mfgr websites.
quote:
Originally posted by Nathan
quote:
Originally posted by danez71
Gun Scrubber and non-chlorinated brake cleaner are NOT the same as shown by the DATA provided.
Can we all say "Myth Busted" now? At least to the idea that gun scrubber and non-chlorinated brake cleaners are the same?
no. the brand you listed may be different. ill do some digging after ive time to dig for the information to use in my response to dan in another thread. in the meantime, if you dont want to use it by all means dont. im not trying to convince anyone to use my methods. my methods work very well for me and none of my guns has melted yet.
I'm sure your methods do work well for you... other wise you wouldnt use them. 
I provided 4-5 brands. ALL of them were different than gunscrubber. They were the 1st ones I looked at. Not obscure, hard to find examples. Quite the opposite.
Gunscrubber lists 2 ingredients:
1)Trichloroethylene
2)Proprietary ingredients
I'm thinking its going to be very hard to provide data for "Proprietary ingredients".
While there might be one (or more) non-chlorinated brake cleaner(s) that may be the same, I provided plenty of hard factual DATA that, at the very minimum, shows that (generically speaking) non-chlorinated brake cleaner is NOT the same as Gunscrubber.
Anyone that disagrees with that last statement is just sticking their head in the sand.
I'm not trying to prove you wrong Nathan... only edgimicate everyone that this myth is a myth; at least generically speaking.
Having said all that, I hope that you can provide DATA showing a brand that is the same but costs less. Times are tough and I would appreciate it. Seriously. |
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Glock26Dude
Average Member
USA
663 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2009 : 19:08:04
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Just the facts ...
Birchwood Casey Gun Scrubber Synthetic Safe Cleaner is about 67% hexane and about 27% isopropyl alcohol.
Birchwood Casey Gun Scrubber Solvent/Degreaser is about 97 % Trichloroethylene.
Therefore, one type is similar to, but not the same as, non-chlorinate brake cleaner. Another type of gun scrubber is the same as regular (chlorinated) brake cleaner.
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Glock 26 with Truglo TFOs
Galco King Tuk or Don Hume H715M WC
147gr Federal Hydra-Shok JHP |
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gunslinger
Advanced Member
USA
2072 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2009 : 19:36:02
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| To each his own, but I don't like Tri-chlor in anything because of its cancer causing tie-in. It was the best degreaser in industry for years--just killed people while it did it...and with products made specifically for cleaning powder residue in firearms, I think I'll stick with what's worked for 40 years for me. As to something that supposedly cleans and lubes in one step, no thanks. Two different processes--no matter what you use to clean. I really like the Rem Oil with the teflon added, so that's my new lube. As I said, I'll stick with Hoppes for the guns and brake cleaner for new rotors. |
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medic68
Master of Mojo
5104 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2009 : 23:44:49
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I also clean guns that have already clean when the voices in my head tell me to.
Jacobite, we must be hearing from the same "mother ship" . Your weapon can never be too clean in my humble opinion |
"Coimhead fearg fhear na foighde"
   
'It doesn't matter how big a ranch ya' own, or how many cows ya' brand,the size of your funeral is still gonna depend on the weather.' -- Harry Truman.
Sometimes there's justice, sometimes there's just us--- Anonymous
"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." -- Mark Twain
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LKline
Jew-Jitsu Master
USA
5029 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2009 : 05:36:41
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When I clean my barrels the first thing i do is soak a patch in Hoppe's & run it through, then I run the bore brush through behind it dry (figuring that I have already saturated the barrel.
At the CCW class yesterday the instructor pointed out that if you dip a bore brush into a container of powder solvent it starts turning the solution inert. Since I don't do this in the first place I feel a little exempt in the equation, but that was his case for using a spray can of solvent since the first spray would be just as potent as the last.
I found it interesting but have done no research on the matter. I am just glad that one of my idiosyncrasies inadvertently had me doing something right. |
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danez71
New Member
93 Posts |
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Bulldog
Whiney [img]smileys/censored.gif[/img]er
USA
3154 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2009 : 14:55:38
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| the only all in one that I ever found works and I still am using it today on all of my firearms is EEZOX |
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Nathan
Big Sky Guy
USA
21543 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2009 : 15:49:11
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quote:
Originally posted by danez71
I really hope no one damages their gun/grips as happened to Josh in Ohio here http://concealedcarryforum.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5428&whichpage=3
pics? |
Nathan In Montana, carrying a Gen4 Glock 19 loaded with Federal 147 grain +P JHPs carried in a Galco King Tuk thats worn on a Wilderness Instructor's belt.
NRA Certified Instructor, Rifle, Shotgun and Pistol
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danez71
New Member
93 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2009 : 06:53:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Nathan
quote:
Originally posted by danez71
I really hope no one damages their gun/grips as happened to Josh in Ohio here http://concealedcarryforum.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5428&whichpage=3
pics?
No. Authenticity wasnt a question before....
quote:
Originally posted by Nathan
quote:
Originally posted by gunslinger
I like brake cleaner for cleaning rotors, not guns.
dont use gunscrubber. put a can of it beside a can of non-chlorinated brake cleaner and youll find theyre one in the same.
Source? |
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DaddyO16
Advanced Member
USA
6007 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2009 : 07:09:34
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| I've been using non-chlorinated brake cleaner ever since I read the information that Nathan posted, and the only surprise I've had is that it dissolved some of the rubberized paint on the internal parts of my Hi-Point 995. Didn't hurt anything, though, it still works fine. I've used it on all of my weapons with great results. |
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Eric
Senior Member
1202 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2009 : 07:12:34
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quote:
Originally posted by danez71
quote:
Originally posted by Nathan
quote:
Originally posted by danez71
I really hope no one damages their gun/grips as happened to Josh in Ohio here http://concealedcarryforum.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5428&whichpage=3
pics?
No. Authenticity wasnt a question before....
quote:
Originally posted by Nathan
quote:
Originally posted by gunslinger
I like brake cleaner for cleaning rotors, not guns.
dont use gunscrubber. put a can of it beside a can of non-chlorinated brake cleaner and youll find theyre one in the same.
Source?
You're beating a dead horse here, and not a single pic of any of the "damage" was ever posted.
JoshinNC also said this in that same thread:
"I don't think it's going to hurt your XD at all, I clean my Glock 21 with Non-Chlorinated brake cleaner everytime I shoot it, and it has done little more than leave a little white haze on select areas, which quickly goes away with a little Hoppes or Mobil-1 or even spit on my finger. I think what happened to me was a fluke, not something to be expected on a regular basis, a very cheaply made firearm and a firearm that is almost 30 years old. I don't know why it happened, just wanted to fulfill my duty to the CCF community and share."
So the guy you are using as your reference for this debate said he himself uses Non-chlorinated brake cleaner on his own Glocks every single time he uses it, and that he himself thought it was a fluke what happened to his very cheaply made, 30yr old one. |
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Nathan
Big Sky Guy
USA
21543 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2009 : 08:57:23
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quote:
Originally posted by danez71
Authenticity wasnt a question before
in this particular thread i dont consider it unreasonable. we've had people claim they would never use it and then come back and post they used it before and it melted their firing pins. this is the internet. people can say anything they want to say for whatever reason they might want to say it. this is why i often provide video.
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Source?
the back of the cans. im sure if you look hard enough you can find something that varies, but its close enough for me. |
Nathan In Montana, carrying a Gen4 Glock 19 loaded with Federal 147 grain +P JHPs carried in a Galco King Tuk thats worn on a Wilderness Instructor's belt.
NRA Certified Instructor, Rifle, Shotgun and Pistol
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danez71
New Member
93 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2009 : 13:56:40
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Thats cool Nathan.
Personally I would be very leary of a product that (purely an example) that was mostly the same but substitutes acetone for alcohol. Acetone is much more aggressive.
Claims of melted firing pins?!?!? I hope you were exaggerating. I dont think I would believe that right away either.
It may be close enough for me too... I'm gonna try it (carefully of course).
But when I read your post that said "one in the same"... I read that as "identical". And its not "identical".
There is no facial expressions or body language on the net and things can be written (or read) in ways that it was not intended that would be perfectly clear in a real person conversation.
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Nathan
Big Sky Guy
USA
21543 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2009 : 17:59:38
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quote:
Originally posted by danez71
Claims of melted firing pins?!?!? I hope you were exaggerating.
yeah, i was exaggerating but not by much. one poster in particular had posted that he would never "abuse" his weapon in such a way and then later posted that he ruined three different guns with it (this thread has been sterilized since because it go downright nasty). my question was if it ruined one gun why would you try it again on another? perhaps im a little hypersensitive on this issue due to the flaming that has gone on in the recent past concerning it; if so i apologize. |
Nathan In Montana, carrying a Gen4 Glock 19 loaded with Federal 147 grain +P JHPs carried in a Galco King Tuk thats worn on a Wilderness Instructor's belt.
NRA Certified Instructor, Rifle, Shotgun and Pistol
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holycow
Average Member
546 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2009 : 18:20:07
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for the record, I use non-chlorinated brake cleaner to clean my Sigs, my pps, my mosberg, and my AR-15s... works perfectly, doesn't damage a thing. I then do a full wipe down with rem-oil, then lube moving/contact parts with mobil-1
to the original poster:
1) Clean and properly lube your weapon before your first outing
2) Clean and properly lube your weapon after every time you go out shooting with it, including its first time out
3) Clean and properly lube your weapon at least once a month even if you DON'T shoot it. (thats the duration I choose, your milage may vary)
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"Those without swords, can still die upon them" - J.R.R. Tolkien |
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1813Anschutz
Advanced Member
USA
2292 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2009 : 20:32:52
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I didn't know that my guns had brakes that needed cleaning! LOL Just my warped sense of humour at play here.
On a serious note regarding cleaning your firearms, I would encourage you to have a clean dry barrel on your CCW....the reason is that it would be very easy for forensics to determine if your gun has been fired or not. This came about with a friend of mine in Idaho that was accused of firing at a person, when if fact the gun was never even out of his holster much less pointed at the perp. Forensics figured that one out in about a nanosecond! The local LEO's in Idaho follow the same procedures for what it is worth.
Again, just thinking out loud here...
Randy |
"The more I shoot,the LUCKIER I seem to get!" |
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Cleaning question
