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Nathan
Big Sky Guy
USA
21544 Posts |
 Posted - 07/10/2012 : 12:17:30
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got the shield back for the second time. the problem no longer happens with the longer magazine, but still happens with the short magazine. 
...deciding on whether or not to send it back for a third time as this may be something that will heal itself once the short magazine wears in a bit. |
Nathan In Montana, carrying a Gen4 Glock 19 loaded with Federal 147 grain +P JHPs carried in a Galco King Tuk thats worn on a Wilderness Instructor's belt.
NRA Certified Instructor, Rifle, Shotgun and Pistol
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zonker1986
Advanced Member
USA
8190 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2012 : 14:54:44
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I was browsing the Smith & Wesson Forum regarding this issue (your video is a hit over there, Nate). I was amazed how many posters laughed at this issue as being no problem, and was amazed that there were more discussions on your gun handling safety than the problem with the Sheild. One LEO flatly stated that he carried his Sheild as a BUG, and if most definitely was an issue. They practically kicked him off the forum because he obviously knew nothing about guns and did not know how to properly holster a weapon. One guy even stated that all his guns do this, and it was not a problem.
I can't get ANY of my guns to do this. Wow.
denial is not a river in Egypt, but apparently on the Smith & Wesson Forum, it is. |
...7 Round Mag Limit? Silly Politicians!! |
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YooperTrav
Average Member
USA
785 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2012 : 15:47:55
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| My shield has been back at smith and wesson for nearly a week now. This is the third time for me so we will see what happens |
GOD BLESS AMERICA
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EvilBetty
Starting Member
USA
2 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2012 : 15:51:31
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Found this thread, through that S&W thread and have been watching... rarely commenting on both. It is bizarre how subjective this issue is with everyone.
But the facts seem to be, that some guns / magazines are having this problem. It IS a problem. And S&W has yet to get a solution or it seems even an understanding of the problem in the hands of the customer service / gun tech's hands. |
There's No Place Like 127.0.0.1 |
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YooperTrav
Average Member
USA
785 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2012 : 15:58:22
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| Betty S&W isnt even recognizing there is a problem. Each of the 3 times ive called they tell me its the first they are hearing of this issue. |
GOD BLESS AMERICA
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samuelrp
Senior Member
USA
1886 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2012 : 18:39:33
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| And they never will. |
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modernswords
Junior Member
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2012 : 18:49:07
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quote:
Originally posted by zonker1986
denial is not a river in Egypt, but apparently on the Smith & Wesson Forum, it is.
And I cannot understand why it is not recognized for the very dangerous problem it is in more than one way. Kinda like swimming in "denial" with crocs. |
 
"...he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one."
“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”- Amendment II, U.S. Constitution |
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Nathan
Big Sky Guy
USA
21544 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2012 : 19:14:31
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quote:
Originally posted by zonker1986
I was amazed how many posters laughed at this issue as being no problem
i couldnt imagine being so fiercely loyal to any brand that you are willing to make excuses and minimize problems. when you pull the trigger the gun should go bang. if it doesnt its a fail. a bad guy shooting at you isnt going to give you time to figure out why your gun isnt working, especially when his is. only a damn fool would dismiss this as an "acceptable" failure. this world has no shortage of fools as this shows.
quote:
was amazed that there were more discussions on your gun handling safety than the problem with the Sheild.
there were no handling safety issues. the chambered round was a training round.
it should come as no surprise however. when people cannot form a valid response they find a way to attack the messenger.
like i said, the world has no shortage of fools. |
Nathan In Montana, carrying a Gen4 Glock 19 loaded with Federal 147 grain +P JHPs carried in a Galco King Tuk thats worn on a Wilderness Instructor's belt.
NRA Certified Instructor, Rifle, Shotgun and Pistol
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kingcrabbercurrry
Junior Member
USA
445 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2012 : 22:32:17
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S&W has snatched defeat from the jaws of victory with the M&P line. There are widespread issues with the full-size 9mm regarding accuracy and now this is happening with the Shield. They had a chance to make the duty/carry gun of the 21st Century and they screwed the pooch with poor QC.
I really love the M&P ergonomics, the interchangeable backstraps and as a 1911 shooter I am intrigued by the combination of an Apex Forward Sitting Sear on a M&P 9 with a thumb safety, but with the crap stock trigger and aforementioned issues, the 3rd Gen Glock 9mms remain the standard in the duty/carry handgun department for me. YMMV. |
"When you signed on to carry that blaster, your world changed. This is about mindset, and regardless what certain groups may think, not every one should have a gun. Or a car. Or children. Or oxygen. It is not a part time thing. It is a commitment to a lifestyle and to a culture." - Pat Rogers |
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deadguy
I see dead people
7298 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2012 : 02:45:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Nathan
quote:
Originally posted by zonker1986
I was amazed how many posters laughed at this issue as being no problem
i couldnt imagine being so fiercely loyal to any brand that you are willing to make excuses and minimize problems.
It's the same brand loyalty that drives the "flawless" range reports on the web when in reality there were FTFs, FTEs, FTRBs, etc through the first 100 rounds. No one wants to tell anyone they got a lemon and look like a fool. Theirs is perfect.
the ones claiming to holster a pistol with the thumb on the rear of the slide don't mention that in a scuffle the butt could be shoved deep into the holster and cause this malfunction. Wonder if George Zimmerman had been carrying a Shield if he would be in a grave instead of in a 2nd degree murder trial. |
People are getting fatter everyday. 10mm isn't just for bears anymore. |
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Trooper Joe
Starting Member
7 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2012 : 07:36:06
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(Problems with going into battery?)
Not sure I understand all the hysteria on this issue. Mine would also do this (as well as my Glock 36) but I just pushed the slide forward. It almost cured itself when (at S&W Request) I sent it back to them due to one type of ammo that was giving me problems (Hornady Critical Duty). Came back in a few days (polished feed ramp and a replaced extractor, I think). The gun is flawless and my carry ammo of choice is, you guessed it, Hornady Critical Duty (+P, 135 grn, and very, very accurate).
In my humble opinion, this is the very best, super-compact, 9mm on the market. Last week at the range, a local firearms instructor who is a much better shot than me, shot my Shield. He complained that the sights were regulated a little high (1/4 inch high with all shots at 10 yards going into a group about the size of a nickel- I swear!).
I am not sure about those folks complaining about the Shields, what they would replace it with. I have had Kahr's, KelTec PF9, Rohrbaugh' s, Ruger LC9's, and this Shield is absolutely the best. [Oh yes, I also tried to get a Kimber Solo to shoot before I bought it, but we couldn't get it to work.] I will probably buy a Sig 938 to go with my EMP9, but I don't think it will be better than my Shield.
Trooper Joe |
Trooper Joe |
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Nathan
Big Sky Guy
USA
21544 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2012 : 09:16:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Trooper Joe
Not sure I understand all the hysteria on this issue.
its simple. the gun does not return into battery on its own. bottom line, you pull the trigger and nothing happens. the "hysteria" is because this is a failure to fire. it doesnt matter what someone would replace it with. hopefully whatever it is it is something that works when you pull the trigger. there is no excuse for a gun that fails to fire simply because the shooter bumped into something like a chair while clearing his home in the dark while not fully awake. there are lots of reasons why a gun can get bumped out of battery, but when it fails to return unassisted its a failure. it doesnt matter whos name is on the slide or how much it cost, its a failure that you may or may not have the frame of mind to correct under the stresses of a defensive shooting or while half awake when a bad guy kicks in your door in the middle of the night. a failure to fire is a failure to fire. |
Nathan In Montana, carrying a Gen4 Glock 19 loaded with Federal 147 grain +P JHPs carried in a Galco King Tuk thats worn on a Wilderness Instructor's belt.
NRA Certified Instructor, Rifle, Shotgun and Pistol
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deadguy
I see dead people
7298 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2012 : 09:23:17
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| I can't for the life of me figure how this can be dismissed by some. |
People are getting fatter everyday. 10mm isn't just for bears anymore. |
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firefighter203
Average Member
USA
528 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2012 : 09:30:06
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| A gun that fails is nothing more than an odd shaped rock that's harder to throw. I don't have a Shield but I take Nathans advise on guns above anyone I know. So from the problems he's had I have no desire to own one now. |
I'd rather be tried by twelve, than carried by six.
Ky. CCDW Instructor |
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gunslinger
Advanced Member
USA
2072 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2012 : 11:03:26
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| The issue is not serious at all. Unless it's your gun with which you put your life on the line. Springer has never had a problem with their XD XD/M lines. That's why I bought one and have never had the slightest problem. I would have expected better from Smith. Denial is simply BS on their part. Although I don't know of any Shields with the problem personally, it clearly does exist and denying that it does could lead to product liability suits. Stupid on their part, imo. |
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Trooper Joe
Starting Member
7 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2012 : 11:29:35
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Interesting comments.
I was just wondering that if the contacts with S&W CS were in the same tone of voice and mindset as some of these comments, there may be a communications issue.
My old state LE agency was solid S&W for many many years. Even though we switched to Sig Sauer for our main duty weapon, S&W has always treated us fairly and honestly.
I have done some pretty dumb things in the past and the most recent being my frustration with the Kimber Solo. I was so upset with every Solo I looked at or tried not working (luckily I never purchased one), that I gave up on the company and sold a beautiful custom shop full size Kimber Eclipse 1911.
After mellowing out for the last year on this issue, I am waiting for Kimber to really get the bugs out of this gun since it is absolutely gorgeous, is accurate, and has a fantastic trigger pull.
I have learned that if I take the emotion out of my contacts with the various gun companies, I enjoy my hobby and commitment for concealed carry, much more.
Compact carry guns are going to have some issues. Most of these can be worked out. I remember that our undercover guys used to tuck a Browning 25 acp in their tee shirts. You talk about under gunned! The KelTec P32 we currently have available (with very minor glitches) is head and shoulders above the old 25 acp's we were forced to carry for deep cover assignments.
[I am sure this will be viewed as hijacking this very interesting thread. But, I am just trying to point out how fortunate we are to have such a wide variety of compact carry guns compared to not too many years ago.]
There have been times in the last several years when I get a little frustrated with my newest and maybe not completely flawless compact auto loader, that I dig out my S&W 442, load it with modern ammo, and feel like I am in a comfortable time warp with a gun I truly trust.
Just some thoughts,
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GunNut
Average Member
USA
821 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2012 : 13:57:47
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| Nathan, what exactly is happening with the shorter magazine (what is rubbing/binding, etc.)? It has to be a clue to this issue... |
An armed society is a polite society. |
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Nathan
Big Sky Guy
USA
21544 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2012 : 14:02:24
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quote:
Originally posted by GunNut
Nathan, what exactly is happening with the shorter magazine (what is rubbing/binding, etc.)? It has to be a clue to this issue...
im not sure. apparently, neither is the manufacturer. it used to do it with either magazine. it only took two trips back to get it to stop doing it with the long magazine. the paper says "barrel modification" but is not specific. still unsure if i want to bother with sending it back a third time or just sell it and wash my hands of it. |
Nathan In Montana, carrying a Gen4 Glock 19 loaded with Federal 147 grain +P JHPs carried in a Galco King Tuk thats worn on a Wilderness Instructor's belt.
NRA Certified Instructor, Rifle, Shotgun and Pistol
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Nathan
Big Sky Guy
USA
21544 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2012 : 14:16:08
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i just got off the phone with them. of course they act as if im the only person to ever experience this issue.
my gun is going back for a third time.
S&W customer service used to be second to none. in fact, in my PPS threads i have praised S&W customer service for outstanding service. theyre taking a huge leap backwards. |
Nathan In Montana, carrying a Gen4 Glock 19 loaded with Federal 147 grain +P JHPs carried in a Galco King Tuk thats worn on a Wilderness Instructor's belt.
NRA Certified Instructor, Rifle, Shotgun and Pistol
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zonker1986
Advanced Member
USA
8190 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2012 : 14:21:30
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| well, the Sheild just dropped off my short list. I was expecting to see something regarding this issue on their website, but they are dumbing down....which just pisses me off enough to ignore the gun all together. It just achieved "Taurus" status in my mind. You either get a good one, or maybe you get a paperweight. Roll of the dice. |
...7 Round Mag Limit? Silly Politicians!! |
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Nathan
Big Sky Guy
USA
21544 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2012 : 14:30:18
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quote:
Originally posted by zonker1986
well, the Sheild just dropped off my short list.
the shield is an outstanding little gun, aside from this issue. i really dont want to count the shield out, but damn s&w, theres just no excuse for this! |
Nathan In Montana, carrying a Gen4 Glock 19 loaded with Federal 147 grain +P JHPs carried in a Galco King Tuk thats worn on a Wilderness Instructor's belt.
NRA Certified Instructor, Rifle, Shotgun and Pistol
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YooperTrav
Average Member
USA
785 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2012 : 16:29:45
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mine is the same way. a loaded chamber and an 8 round magazine works fine. But just trying to lock the loaded 7 round magazine into place takes using the palm of my hand to force it in. and once its in, on a loaded chamber, it will not return to battery automatically. so there is a certain connection between the smaller mags and this issue.
i will update once it comes back from its 3rd trip. |
GOD BLESS AMERICA
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YooperTrav
Average Member
USA
785 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2012 : 16:32:13
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| and also, my 13 year old daughter cannot get the smaller mag to lock into the shield. She simply cannot do it. tell me that is not a problem? she shoots all of my guns and has no problems with any of them.. except this shield |
GOD BLESS AMERICA
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YooperTrav
Average Member
USA
785 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2012 : 17:06:43
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and as far as these jokers who question the "hysteria" of this and call it a "non-issue"... who cares.
Im 42 years old and Im long past the point in my life of worrying about what other people think about me.
if you think this is a non-issue, good for you. lots of "cowboys" and "tough guys" in this world and I dont claim to be either.. |
GOD BLESS AMERICA
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GunNut
Average Member
USA
821 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2012 : 19:09:49
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OK, so maybe someone could take some measurements of the two mags, including the top round height. I'm thinking the 7-rounder is wider and warping the frame some, or rides higher, or something like that. I think S&W is being very stupid about how they are handling this. It's not going to just go away, especially as it's a very serious issue to their CCW customers- the target buyer of the Shield. And forums just spread the word. They need to address this and make some kind of statement about it. They've got to have received dozens complaints minimum about this..
Or, maybe just use 8-round mags ? :) |
An armed society is a polite society. |
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Topic |
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M&P Shield - out of battery failure
