One long gun under tyranny...

Defensive carry handguns.
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Dubhan
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One long gun under tyranny...

Postby Dubhan » Fri Dec 19, 2014 5:35 am

Here's another fun hypothetical.

Let's say you live someplace where the gun laws are horrific. Say IL, CA, NY. And for one reason or another you cant move.

For this hypothetical, lets say you are restricted to a weapon with a 7 or 10 round mag and no pistol grip or flash suppressor or adjustable stock. Or you CAN have a pistol grip, but the trade off is a fixed magazine which requires you to load it one round at a time from the top.

What one gun do you have under the bed for everything?

IMO, the 5.56 is now pretty much out of the running. It's benefit of light, easily reloadable cartridges is squashed by a 10 round mag cap.

That leaves a 12g shotty or a .308 or heavier rifle. And since nobody really makes heavy autoloaders without pistol grips, that pretty much leaves the m1a. Preferably with a shorter barrel. Im sure that 22" barrels are used to defend homes somewhere, but I sure wouldn't want to have to...

So a 12g autoloader with a 20" barrel, or, say a m1a scout or socom 16?. Maybe a Saiga sporter in 7.62x39?...

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Nathan
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Re: One long gun under tyranny...

Postby Nathan » Fri Dec 19, 2014 5:38 am

In this oppressive scenario the M1A seems the obvious superior choice.
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jmhyer
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Re: One long gun under tyranny...

Postby jmhyer » Fri Dec 19, 2014 7:00 am

Under your hypothetical conditions, I would say a 12ga shotgun with extended tube magazine.

Or maybe, because demand would skyrocket, manufacturers would take greater interest in perfecting a basic Rem870 or Mossy500 with detachable box magazine. No pistol grip or collapsible stock. 18" cylinder bore barrel.

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Re: One long gun under tyranny...

Postby robalo23 » Fri Dec 19, 2014 8:33 am

Still go with a 12ga.

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Nathan
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Re: One long gun under tyranny...

Postby Nathan » Fri Dec 19, 2014 8:51 am

It surprises me that if truly limited to one gun that anyone would choose a 100 yard gun. Shotguns are awesome and have their place; what they do they do better than anything...but if you can truly only have one long gun why limit yourself to 100 yards?

I'm certainly not criticizing anyone for their own choices; I'm trying to understand them. Please explain; sell me.
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exSun
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Re: One long gun under tyranny...

Postby exSun » Fri Dec 19, 2014 9:47 am

This is an "under the bed" long gun. That implies use indoors as well as out. I would say the 12 ga. defensive model with extended magazine, loaded appropriately for the conditions (buck shot if overpenetration is not an issue, bird shot otherwise). Keep some slugs on hand for those 50 - 100 yard shots. Keep birdshot for hunting birds (not that this would be an ideal shotgun for hunting, but it would be passable).

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Re: One long gun under tyranny...

Postby CharlieW » Fri Dec 19, 2014 10:17 am

Nathan wrote:In this oppressive scenario the M1A seems the obvious superior choice.


I see how you are thinking, Nathan. The M1A would be hard to beat -- my initial thought was an AR-10 variation, basically equivalent characteristics -- firepower, range, accuracy, portability, reliability, ammo availability ...
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Re: One long gun under tyranny...

Postby ridurall » Fri Dec 19, 2014 10:36 am

Of course there is also the M1 Garand. I have my fathers and will never give it up. He grew to love that gun during WWII and as an NCO they wanted him to carry a M1 Carbine. That little experiment didn't last a week before he threatened to do bodily harm to the supply Sgt if he didn't give his M1 Garand back. And it had to be his with his serial number.

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Re: One long gun under tyranny...

Postby hkguy » Fri Dec 19, 2014 10:50 am

Nathan wrote:In this oppressive scenario the M1A seems the obvious superior choice.


if my M1a you mean the M1a socom. The M1a is a fine rifle but look at the draw backs, its heavy as hell, even with a composite stock, not to mention its quite long. mags are expensive and one can only reasonably carry a very limited amount of ammo.

you have many of the same drawbacks with the socom, but it is a significantly lighter package, its still a solid 600m gun but in a more manageable package in a true SHTF situation, but in this situation the mag would have to be permanently affixed to the gun and then loaded with stripper clips due to the flash hider.

Even in the nazi states, the AR (or clones) platform imo is the superior choice. you can rapidly swap uppers (so long as it fits the 5.56 mag), carry more ammo, and still have an effective intermediate round. though in nathans neck of the woods, an ar10 would my choice.

i would consider getting this and then building a .22 upper and a 6.8 upper.
http://www.aresdefense.com/?page_id=729


though in reality, there is not going to be a once size fits all firearm for this situation.
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Nathan
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Re: One long gun under tyranny...

Postby Nathan » Fri Dec 19, 2014 11:52 am

He prohibited pistol grips, thus my recommendation. If pistol grips are acceptable I would choose the AR10.
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Re: One long gun under tyranny...

Postby jmhyer » Fri Dec 19, 2014 12:06 pm

Nathan wrote:It surprises me that if truly limited to one gun that anyone would choose a 100 yard gun. Shotguns are awesome and have their place; what they do they do better than anything...but if you can truly only have one long gun why limit yourself to 100 yards?

I'm certainly not criticizing anyone for their own choices; I'm trying to understand them. Please explain; sell me.


Personally, given the geography/topography of my location, a 100 yard limitation is not a problem. YMMV.

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Re: One long gun under tyranny...

Postby robalo23 » Fri Dec 19, 2014 6:11 pm

Nathan wrote:It surprises me that if truly limited to one gun that anyone would choose a 100 yard gun. Shotguns are awesome and have their place; what they do they do better than anything...but if you can truly only have one long gun why limit yourself to 100 yards?

I'm certainly not criticizing anyone for their own choices; I'm trying to understand them. Please explain; sell me.


Down south a long shot would be 100 yds. Assuming an urban environment, I'd speculate even shorter. With the variety of rounds available for the shotgun it would be a more versatile weapon. I'd hate to clean a squirrel shot by a.308

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Re: One long gun under tyranny...

Postby Dubhan » Sat Dec 20, 2014 12:51 am

[quote="hkguy"]
i would consider getting this and then building a .22 upper and a 6.8 upper.
http://www.aresdefense.com/?page_id=729
[quote]

This is actually an interesting solution. The problem with getting different uppers is that they don't really work as I understand this system. Yeah, you can attach any upper, but the BCG is integral to the lower (because the buffer works like a shotgun), so my understanding is that you can only use 5.56 and 7.62x39...

I gotta say though, 7.62x39 through this light package has its appeal, it might be a better solution and more accurate than say a mini-30. Wont have the reach of a m1a, but it would be much lighter and easier to use and hit way harder than a 5.56.

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Re: One long gun under tyranny...

Postby hkguy » Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:54 pm

Dubhan wrote:
hkguy wrote:i would consider getting this and then building a .22 upper and a 6.8 upper.
http://www.aresdefense.com/?page_id=729

This is actually an interesting solution. The problem with getting different uppers is that they don't really work as I understand this system. Yeah, you can attach any upper, but the BCG is integral to the lower (because the buffer works like a shotgun), so my understanding is that you can only use 5.56 and 7.62x39...

I gotta say though, 7.62x39 through this light package has its appeal, it might be a better solution and more accurate than say a mini-30. Wont have the reach of a m1a, but it would be much lighter and easier to use and hit way harder than a 5.56.



if it uses a standard ar bolt, you an shoot 5.56, 300 blk, 300 whisper, 6.8 spc, 6.5 grendle, 7.62x39, 5.54x39, .458 socom, .50 beowolf, 9mm, 5.7x28 etc.
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Thain
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Re: One long gun under tyranny...

Postby Thain » Sun Dec 21, 2014 12:50 pm

A SKS would be a good choice

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chemist
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Re: One long gun under tyranny...

Postby chemist » Mon Dec 22, 2014 5:21 am

I break the fucking law.
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Re: One long gun under tyranny...

Postby Pickwick » Wed Dec 24, 2014 5:36 am

Like someone said, in Ga. 100 yds. is a long shot. I tend to go with the 12 ga. guys, but why not just a Marlin 336C 30/30? Also, Ruger is now making that scout rifle .308 with a ten round box mag. What about that?

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Re: One long gun under tyranny...

Postby Nathan » Wed Dec 24, 2014 8:21 am

chemist wrote:I break the fucking law.
Best response yet.
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Re: One long gun under tyranny...

Postby Eric_in_FL » Wed Dec 24, 2014 8:29 am

robalo23 wrote: I'd hate to clean a squirrel shot by a.308


What squirrel?! lol

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Re: One long gun under tyranny...

Postby Pickwick » Wed Dec 24, 2014 9:27 am

We may need to make a distinction between under tyranny and in a long term survival situation. My choice in a violent but functioning society where I was primarily concerned with self-defense might be different from what I would choose for long-term survival in a nation where the infrastructure had broken down or living out in the wilderness. Still, a shotgun would be on the short list.

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Re: One long gun under tyranny...

Postby Nathan » Wed Dec 24, 2014 10:27 am

Pickwick wrote:My choice in a violent but functioning society where I was primarily concerned with self-defense might be different from what I would choose for long-term survival in a nation where the infrastructure had broken down or living out in the wilderness.
Very good point!
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Re: One long gun under tyranny...

Postby Dubhan » Wed Dec 24, 2014 11:50 am

Nathan wrote:
chemist wrote:I break the fucking law.
Best response yet.


Prison isn't pleasant anywhere but perhaps some parts of Europe, but it is especially unpleasant in places like CA, NY and IL, where as a gun toting redneck you are likely a very small minority.

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Dubhan
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Re: One long gun under tyranny...

Postby Dubhan » Wed Dec 24, 2014 11:53 am

Pickwick wrote:We may need to make a distinction between under tyranny and in a long term survival situation. My choice in a violent but functioning society where I was primarily concerned with self-defense might be different from what I would choose for long-term survival in a nation where the infrastructure had broken down or living out in the wilderness. Still, a shotgun would be on the short list.


This is why, I think that a smart man would maintain a cache in a neighboring, non tyrannical state of supplies which are not tyranny approved, that can be picked up on the way to a hidey hole.

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Dubhan
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Re: One long gun under tyranny...

Postby Dubhan » Wed Dec 24, 2014 11:54 am

Pickwick wrote:Like someone said, in Ga. 100 yds. is a long shot. I tend to go with the 12 ga. guys, but why not just a Marlin 336C 30/30? Also, Ruger is now making that scout rifle .308 with a ten round box mag. What about that?


IMHO, a bolt action rifle is a poor choice for home defense.

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Dubhan
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Re: One long gun under tyranny...

Postby Dubhan » Wed Dec 24, 2014 12:03 pm

if it uses a standard ar bolt, you an shoot 5.56, 300 blk, 300 whisper, 6.8 spc, 6.5 grendle, 7.62x39, 5.54x39, .458 socom, .50 beowolf, 9mm, 5.7x28 etc.



The more I read about this, the more I like it. What adds value to this solution is that its now easier than ever to build your own unregistered lowers from an 80% billet, and just let those thing sit in a box in the garage, nice and legal like, without uppers... hopefully forever. In the meantime, a couple of scr lowers arms the adults in your house with various caliber solutions in full compliance with the law, and if you can only load 10 at a time, they might as well be .458s. God help anyone coming through the door with ill intent.


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