Chasing the holy grail of carry

Defensive carry handguns.
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Nathan
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Chasing the holy grail of carry

Postby Nathan » Sat Oct 29, 2016 6:53 pm

It seems I spend far too much time in search of the perfect carry gun. The perfect carry gun is to me:

10mm or 45ACP
≥ ten round capacity
≤ 4.25" long barrel
≤ 1.2" slide thickness
Consistent trigger
No manual safety

With the recent 1076 purchase going bust, I'm almost at the point of giving up on finding my holy grail of carry guns and ordering a 10mm Commander from a custom builder.
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Re: Chasing the holy grail of carry

Postby MisterB » Sat Oct 29, 2016 7:44 pm

Why not a Glock 29 10mm? Has a lot of what you're looking for. Yes, they look chunky and ugly, but carry well owb. They shoot surprisingly well too. I have a G26, and it is surprisingly accurate. Also, not only does it hold 10+1, but you can toss one of your 15 round G20 mags in a pocket. Either in addition to your pocket revolver or instead of.

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Re: Chasing the holy grail of carry

Postby Nathan » Sat Oct 29, 2016 8:01 pm

MisterB wrote:Why not a Glock 29 10mm?

Thickness. I love my Glock 20 and would carry it every day were it not for the thickness of the gun. When I hold it I feel like a little boy holding Daddy's gun; it's just too thick for a daily carry, at least for my hands.
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Re: Chasing the holy grail of carry

Postby deadguy » Mon Oct 31, 2016 3:54 am

Nathan, not sure if you remember but I had a 10mm CCO built for me a few years ago. It was to be the ultimate carry gun. Sold it! Reasons? 10mm has its advantages, but they didn't outweigh those of good ol 45acp. The negatives that changed my mind were 10mm cost is higher (and i don't reload) and snappier recoil. It just wasn't a practicle round for me.

I know you love the 10, and I did as well at one point. Great round, but in the end, just not worth the expense, and pain, over a round that works well and is fun to shoot.

I'm not trying to dissuade you in any way. Just sharing my experience.

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Re: Chasing the holy grail of carry

Postby Nathan » Mon Oct 31, 2016 11:10 am

deadguy wrote:I know you love the 10, and I did as well at one point. Great round, but in the end, just not worth the expense, and pain, over a round that works well and is fun to shoot.

Overall I actually agree with you very much. What I like about the 10mm is that I can load it with 220 grain hard cast bullets and it becomes a last resort bear defense gun, but for human threats I've never known the .45 to be considered inadequate on any level. I will likely end up utilizing one of the .45s that I already own since the 10mm gun market just isn't yet where I need it to be.
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Re: Chasing the holy grail of carry

Postby hkguy » Mon Oct 31, 2016 3:47 pm

you could get a G20SF and chop the frame to a G29 and then have the barrel flush cut to the slide for 10mm or the 21/30 mod in .45. Have someone do grip slimming/reduction work on the frame and viola your nearly perfect pistol with a barrel that is .2 inches longer than spec.

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here is a pic of the grip work.
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Re: Chasing the holy grail of carry

Postby jeffhughes » Mon Oct 31, 2016 4:01 pm

I agree^^^^

Check out http://www.boresightsolutions.com

He's among the very best. The above page links to his signature series. The owner does all of this work personally.


http://www.bsgduty.com gets you to his duty series that's less expensive and very fast turn around. I just picked up a used g17 for 200 bucks that is headed for the duty series frame work, g19 grip chop, and new sights.

I'd have a g21 with a grip reduction and a g30 grip chop in a flash...

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Re: Chasing the holy grail of carry

Postby deadguy » Tue Nov 01, 2016 4:37 pm

Nathan wrote:
deadguy wrote:I know you love the 10, and I did as well at one point. Great round, but in the end, just not worth the expense, and pain, over a round that works well and is fun to shoot.

Overall I actually agree with you very much. What I like about the 10mm is that I can load it with 220 grain hard cast bullets and it becomes a last resort bear defense gun, but for human threats I've never known the .45 to be considered inadequate on any level. I will likely end up utilizing one of the .45s that I already own since the 10mm gun market just isn't yet where I need it to be.
the bear thing is something I cannot relate to but completely agree with.

I still can't believe you haven't gone full custom on a 1911 yet.

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Re: Chasing the holy grail of carry

Postby Nathan » Tue Nov 01, 2016 4:48 pm

deadguy wrote:I still can't believe you haven't gone full custom on a 1911 yet.

...you must have missed this one?
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Re: Chasing the holy grail of carry

Postby Hand and Steel » Tue Nov 01, 2016 6:30 pm

To offer my own opinion, there is no perfect handgun for any purpose.

There are many handguns which are good enough, and I think you own more than several of them.

Perfection is ultimately unattainable in life, and constantly seeking it instead of settling for something which is good enough for the task at hand is essentially self destructive in that it becomes a waste of time which could be spent doing or experiencing something which you actually value.

Do you have any serious objections to using your Glock 19 or VP9 for carry around town? If not, then why agonize over something that might be only slightly better?

Do you have any serious objections to using your 10mm Glock or Titan (or whatever other hand cannons are in your collection) for woods carry? If not, then why agonize over finding that "perfect gun" that could only be slightly better?

Are you competent with the weapons you have? Are you confident with the weapons you have? If yes, then be comfortable with what you've got. Perfection is an ideal, not a reality.
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Re: Chasing the holy grail of carry

Postby MisterB » Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:34 pm

Hand and Steel wrote:To offer my own opinion, there is no perfect handgun for any purpose.

There are many handguns which are good enough, and I think you own more than several of them.

Perfection is ultimately unattainable in life, and constantly seeking it instead of settling for something which is good enough for the task at hand is essentially self destructive in that it becomes a waste of time which could be spent doing or experiencing something which you actually value.

Do you have any serious objections to using your Glock 19 or VP9 for carry around town? If not, then why agonize over something that might be only slightly better?

Do you have any serious objections to using your 10mm Glock or Titan (or whatever other hand cannons are in your collection) for woods carry? If not, then why agonize over finding that "perfect gun" that could only be slightly better?

Are you competent with the weapons you have? Are you confident with the weapons you have? If yes, then be comfortable with what you've got. Perfection is an ideal, not a reality.


Very well said. Applying that philosophy to other things than just firearms, could probably add 15 years to his life

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Re: Chasing the holy grail of carry

Postby deadguy » Wed Nov 02, 2016 2:58 am

Nathan wrote:
deadguy wrote:I still can't believe you haven't gone full custom on a 1911 yet.

...you must have missed this one?

I remember that one. I was referring to a full custom from a one-man shop and not a semi custom (i know i know....debateable). Rogers Precision, Business End Customs, Heirloom, Chen, Chambers, etc. Surprisingly, for the cost of the Titan or a few hundred more (or possibly less), a Colt or Springfield base can be transformed into something specifically for you by a custom builder. It may not be your cup of tea, but I am surprised you haven't one down that road yet.

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Re: Chasing the holy grail of carry

Postby Nathan » Wed Nov 02, 2016 7:50 am

deadguy wrote:I was referring to a full custom from a one-man shop and not a semi custom (i know i know....debateable).


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The Titan is a hand-built, full custom $4,000 1911 built one at a time by the same master gunsmith, Greg Krebaum. The only thing Dan Wesson on the Titan is the name on the slide. Dan Wesson doesn't even service it, any warranty issues are handled by Greg personally. I've owned a Wilson and a Brown in years past and I believe that the Titan is the finest gun I've ever fired.
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Re: Chasing the holy grail of carry

Postby Nathan » Wed Nov 02, 2016 7:52 am

hkguy wrote:you could get a G20SF and chop the frame to a G29 and then have the barrel flush cut to the slide for 10mm or the 21/30 mod in .45. Have someone do grip slimming/reduction work on the frame and viola your nearly perfect pistol with a barrel that is .2 inches longer than spec.

My issue with the Glock 10mm/.45 is the thickness of the gun which grip reduction can't help. If they made a 10mm on the 22/23 frame size (there's plenty of wasted space in the grip for the additional length) it would be the ideal carry gun.
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Re: Chasing the holy grail of carry

Postby Nathan » Wed Nov 02, 2016 7:53 am

jeffhughes wrote:He's among the very best. The above page links to his signature series. The owner does all of this work personally.

Some of those stipple jobs are incredible. It's something I've always wanted to try myself, but likely never will.
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Re: Chasing the holy grail of carry

Postby Nathan » Wed Nov 02, 2016 8:03 am

Hand and Steel wrote:Perfection is ultimately unattainable in life, and constantly seeking it instead of settling for something which is good enough for the task at hand is essentially self destructive in that it becomes a waste of time which could be spent doing or experiencing something which you actually value.

I agree, yet I continue to search for the better gun. I think on some level, we all do albeit on relative criteria depending on our circumstances. My carry needs vary from 110# tweaker defense to 1,500# grizzly bear defense and everything in between. If I lived in the city I'd likely carry a G19 (9mm) and never consider anything else. If I stayed strictly in the country I'd open carry a G20 (10mm) and never think twice about it. But I'm back and forth daily. I carry onto jobsites where firearms are prohibited per customer company policy making deep carry necessary. I'd just love to find one gun that is capable of filling every need. A 10mm could meet my needs with a simple magazine swap (180 grain JHP in town, 220 grain hard cast in the woods) but concealable choices that fit my hand and meet my other requirements don't seem to exist. The closest I can come is a 10mm Commander but even then I'm sacrificing capacity and reliability*.

(*= I'm a 1911 fanatic but I never pretend they are as reliable as a Glock or comparable polymer wonder-gun because they simply aren't).
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Re: Chasing the holy grail of carry

Postby MisterB » Wed Nov 02, 2016 1:56 pm

Nathan wrote:
Hand and Steel wrote:Perfection is ultimately unattainable in life, and constantly seeking it instead of settling for something which is good enough for the task at hand is essentially self destructive in that it becomes a waste of time which could be spent doing or experiencing something which you actually value.

I agree, yet I continue to search for the better gun. I think on some level, we all do albeit on relative criteria depending on our circumstances. My carry needs vary from 110# tweaker defense to 1,500# grizzly bear defense and everything in between. If I lived in the city I'd likely carry a G19 (9mm) and never consider anything else. If I stayed strictly in the country I'd open carry a G20 (10mm) and never think twice about it. But I'm back and forth daily. I carry onto jobsites where firearms are prohibited per customer company policy making deep carry necessary. I'd just love to find one gun that is capable of filling every need. A 10mm could meet my needs with a simple magazine swap (180 grain JHP in town, 220 grain hard cast in the woods) but concealable choices that fit my hand and meet my other requirements don't seem to exist. The closest I can come is a 10mm Commander but even then I'm sacrificing capacity and reliability*.

(*= I'm a 1911 fanatic but I never pretend they are as reliable as a Glock or comparable polymer wonder-gun because they simply aren't).



You're overthinking this. I know you spend time in grizzly country, but what percentage of your total time is that? 10%? Carry your ideal gun for the 90%, and keep your 10% gun (likely your G20 10mm) in your truck in the center console with a shoulder holster and two extra mags. You get to bear country, and you put on the shoulder holster. Takes 10 seconds. Boom, you're good. And now you've got your 90% gun with you as well.

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Re: Chasing the holy grail of carry

Postby Nathan » Wed Nov 02, 2016 3:48 pm

MisterB wrote:You're overthinking this.

...you say that as if you never even met me. Image

I recognize the validity of your recommendations, I just can't help but chase the holy grail.
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Re: Chasing the holy grail of carry

Postby jeffhughes » Wed Nov 02, 2016 4:47 pm

Nathan wrote:
jeffhughes wrote:He's among the very best. The above page links to his signature series. The owner does all of this work personally.

Some of those stipple jobs are incredible. It's something I've always wanted to try myself, but likely never will.


Why not send one of your many off? When you hold his work you'll send the rest of your collection off in short order.

Edit, just saw your issue with slide thickness, still you ought to send out a 19/23/32

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Re: Chasing the holy grail of carry

Postby deadguy » Wed Nov 02, 2016 4:59 pm

Nathan wrote:
deadguy wrote:I was referring to a full custom from a one-man shop and not a semi custom (i know i know....debateable).


Image
The Titan is a hand-built, full custom $4,000 1911 built one at a time by the same master gunsmith, Greg Krebaum. The only thing Dan Wesson on the Titan is the name on the slide. Dan Wesson doesn't even service it, any warranty issues are handled by Greg personally. I've owned a Wilson and a Brown in years past and I believe that the Titan is the finest gun I've ever fired.

I didn't realize one guy built those. Tight groups!!

Did you have any input on the options?

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Re: Chasing the holy grail of carry

Postby Nathan » Wed Nov 02, 2016 7:51 pm

deadguy wrote:Did you have any input on the options?

Yes, and no. Because he is a one-man operation he builds them as fast as he can for Dan Wesson (which is also why supply is so limited). I could order one and hope to see it in a year or two. It wasn't an issue for me really, because the only thing I would change on this gun anyway is the rear adjustable sight. Eventually I'll get a fixed sight installed and it will be everything I wanted it to be anyway.
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Re: Chasing the holy grail of carry

Postby Nathan » Wed Nov 02, 2016 7:52 pm

jeffhughes wrote:you ought to send out a 19/23/32

I actually thing I'm going to do that. The only thing I prefer about the Gen 4 guns is the texture. I've many Gen 3 guns that I'd like to get stipled.
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Re: Chasing the holy grail of carry

Postby hkguy » Wed Nov 02, 2016 8:12 pm

Nathan wrote:
hkguy wrote:you could get a G20SF and chop the frame to a G29 and then have the barrel flush cut to the slide for 10mm or the 21/30 mod in .45. Have someone do grip slimming/reduction work on the frame and viola your nearly perfect pistol with a barrel that is .2 inches longer than spec.

My issue with the Glock 10mm/.45 is the thickness of the gun which grip reduction can't help. If they made a 10mm on the 22/23 frame size (there's plenty of wasted space in the grip for the additional length) it would be the ideal carry gun.



I think you would be presently surprised to see what a grip reduction would do to one of the large frame glocks. now it wont help much with slide thickness. Its too bad that the 40 cal mags just wont work with 10mm, otherwise you could have a 23 barrel reamed out to 10mm and increase the recoil spring weight.
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Re: Chasing the holy grail of carry

Postby Nathan » Wed Nov 02, 2016 8:44 pm

hkguy wrote:Its too bad that the 40 cal mags just wont work with 10mm, otherwise you could have a 23 barrel reamed out to 10mm and increase the recoil spring weight.

...I'd have the perfect gun.
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