What do you consider the minimum SD caliber

Defensive carry handguns.
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jnic
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Re: What do you consider the minimum SD caliber

Postby jnic » Tue Dec 09, 2014 2:59 pm

Put me in the 9mm and up crowd

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robalo23
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Re: What do you consider the minimum SD caliber

Postby robalo23 » Tue Dec 09, 2014 3:07 pm

7mm Rem mag for long range, 12 ga for short.
Oh, you mean in a pistol. 147gr 9mm is the min. my preference is .45acp.

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Tye
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Re: What do you consider the minimum SD caliber

Postby Tye » Tue Dec 09, 2014 5:52 pm

.38 spl +P
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neilbedwell
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Re: What do you consider the minimum SD caliber

Postby neilbedwell » Tue Dec 09, 2014 9:18 pm

9mm is the bare minimum I will carry.

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hkguy
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Re: What do you consider the minimum SD caliber

Postby hkguy » Tue Dec 09, 2014 11:21 pm

many of us at this forum advocate that anything that is not a service caliber (ie what LEO's) carry is inadequate for SD. In layman's terms, anything smaller than 9mm/.38spl is not a good choice.

I regularly carry a .38spl and my wife carries 9mm.
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samuelrp
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Re: What do you consider the minimum SD caliber

Postby samuelrp » Wed Dec 10, 2014 8:01 am

.38 special +P
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Nathan
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Re: What do you consider the minimum SD caliber

Postby Nathan » Wed Dec 10, 2014 8:52 am

Revolver - .38 Special
Pistol - 9mm
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CharlieW
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Re: What do you consider the minimum SD caliber

Postby CharlieW » Wed Dec 10, 2014 12:55 pm

Gunsmith, you may be unaware of the huge history of this discussion on CCF 1.0 -- ultimately, discussion of "mouseguns" (.380 and below) was banned, and the general recommendation was, and is, to carry heavier bullets in any caliber. I definitely recommend reading Nathan's articles and guidelines elsewhere on the forum.

There are always exceptions, I imagine -- I have been known to carry a .327 Magnum snubby with Golden Saber 115 gr. hollowpoints, and not feel undergunned. YMMV :-)
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Nathan
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Re: What do you consider the minimum SD caliber

Postby Nathan » Wed Dec 10, 2014 1:58 pm

CharlieW wrote:I definitely recommend reading Nathan's articles and guidelines elsewhere on the forum
...thanks for the plug. 8)

...see http://CarryGuide.com for more.
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Elderberry
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Re: What do you consider the minimum SD caliber

Postby Elderberry » Wed Dec 10, 2014 3:33 pm

.38 special.
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Dubhan
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Re: What do you consider the minimum SD caliber

Postby Dubhan » Thu Dec 11, 2014 2:01 am

.38 for the win

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RagTop454
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Re: What do you consider the minimum SD caliber

Postby RagTop454 » Sat Dec 13, 2014 11:41 pm

147 grain 9mm. That's what I normally carry / practice with and have the most of, but I sure do like and feel more comfortable with 45.

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Re: What do you consider the minimum SD caliber

Postby ridurall » Tue Dec 16, 2014 10:45 am

I've never been a fan of 9mm but I understand it for some people. My wife carries a Walther 40 S&W and for years I carried .45 ACP but I've gone to 10mm. That picture Nathan posted about penetration made the difference to me.

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hkguy
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Re: What do you consider the minimum SD caliber

Postby hkguy » Tue Dec 16, 2014 11:25 am

ridurall wrote:I've never been a fan of 9mm but I understand it for some people. My wife carries a Walther 40 S&W and for years I carried .45 ACP but I've gone to 10mm. That picture Nathan posted about penetration made the difference to me.


the largest PD dept in my area just announced they were turning in their glock 22's for glock 17's. I believe the FBI and Secret Service are doing the same.
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Nathan
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Re: What do you consider the minimum SD caliber

Postby Nathan » Tue Dec 16, 2014 1:54 pm

Many departments are switching from .40 to 147 grain 9mm. They could have saved themselves a lot of hassle had they simply listened to what I've been preaching since '06. The secret to making 9mm truly effective is to utilize 147 grain JHP. Go heavy.
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ridurall
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Re: What do you consider the minimum SD caliber

Postby ridurall » Tue Dec 16, 2014 7:21 pm

I still can't get past the old Army stories of the Philippines when the .38 Long Colt was the issue caliber. The Muslim Moro tribal murderers were doping themselves up enough that when they charged the base would have several .38 hits in their body but still had enough stamina to kill the base commander with their Bolo machete before dying. I think it was Capt.Black Jack Pershing that pushed for the .38 caliber and later as a General gave his support for the .45 that would put the bad guy down for good much quicker. They ended up with the .45 Colt if memory serves me correctly and then later John Browning's 1911 .45 ACP. I feel we should learn from our history especially since we are dealing with Muslims who are just as crazy now as they were then. I probably have a few of the facts wrong but the idea is still there. I have never been able to get excited about owning any 9mm.

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Nathan
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Re: What do you consider the minimum SD caliber

Postby Nathan » Tue Dec 16, 2014 7:50 pm

I outlined the Moros incident at CarryGuide.com.
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deadguy
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Re: What do you consider the minimum SD caliber

Postby deadguy » Wed Dec 17, 2014 7:07 am

Nathan wrote:Many departments are switching from .40 to 147 grain 9mm. They could have saved themselves a lot of hassle had they simply listened to what I've been preaching since '06. The secret to making 9mm truly effective is to utilize 147 grain JHP. Go heavy.
I'm guessing it is because they need more rounds to miss with before hitting the subject :)

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deadguy
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Re: What do you consider the minimum SD caliber

Postby deadguy » Wed Dec 17, 2014 7:09 am

oh, and for me, the minimums are 357 in wheelie and 45 in semi auto

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Brickkicker
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Re: What do you consider the minimum SD caliber

Postby Brickkicker » Sun Dec 21, 2014 11:27 pm

I like the Buffalo Bore 9mm +p in 124 gr. 1300 fps with 461 ft/lbs

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Brickkicker
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Re: What do you consider the minimum SD caliber

Postby Brickkicker » Sun Dec 21, 2014 11:35 pm

And in my backup gun (380 in an ankle holster) the Buffalo Bore +p ammo actually has better specs (on paper at least) than a 38 special.
1200 fps and 288 ft/lbs

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chemist
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Re: What do you consider the minimum SD caliber

Postby chemist » Mon Dec 22, 2014 5:13 am

9mm
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Pickwick
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Re: What do you consider the minimum SD caliber

Postby Pickwick » Mon Dec 22, 2014 8:06 am

.38 spcl is the absolute minimum. I prefer 9 MM or .45.

On the other hand, I also like what Jeff Cooper said once in answer to the question, "what is the best gun to use." He replied, "The one you have."

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Nathan
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Re: What do you consider the minimum SD caliber

Postby Nathan » Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:12 am

Brickkicker wrote:And in my backup gun (380 in an ankle holster) the Buffalo Bore +p ammo actually has better specs (on paper at least) than a 38 special.
1200 fps and 288 ft/lbs
Irrelevant. Simple energy means nothing in terms of effectiveness at typical handgun velocity.

From CarryGuide.com:

"Some believe in lighter, faster bullets due to their superior simple energy numbers. This is a flawed understanding of ballistic performance. A lighter bullet with comparable charge will always have higher velocity generating higher simple energy numbers which on paper makes the lighter bullet appear superior. The gelatin on the other hand, shows the opposite to be true. The heavier bullet of comparable diameter will always penetrate deeper than the lighter, faster bullet despite its lower simple energy. To make my point I will compare the .44 Magnum handgun to the .223 rifle load. On paper the .223 is superior due to its higher energy numbers but would you use .223 as bear defense? Absolutely not. Simple energy is only a factor worth considering when comparing two bullets of the same weight."
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Pickwick
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Re: What do you consider the minimum SD caliber

Postby Pickwick » Fri Dec 26, 2014 4:58 am

Nathan, I agree. If high velocity were the major factor, a .222 Swift would be everybody's choice! But, I do hear people talk about "hydro-static shock" that is produced by a faster bullet, but I think that mainly applies to rifles.


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