ATF Declared M855 illegal

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Montanapatriot
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ATF Declared M855 illegal

Postby Montanapatriot » Sun Feb 15, 2015 12:20 pm

The ATF has declared surplus military ammo to be armor piercing.
Will this make all in possession of it immediately felons?
SEE THE NRA ILA site for information.

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libertyteeth
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Re: ATF Declared M855 illegal

Postby libertyteeth » Sun Feb 15, 2015 2:53 pm

It's just M855 as your post title says (for now) and that's bad enough. Thats Green Tip 62 grain for those posers on here. I'll bet they make a move on M193 soon too..
I'll bet they are testing the pushback on this round.

ATF is banning it by classifying it as a pistol round since the advent of AR pistols as it is "armor piercing." I feel much safer now...and we are all gonna be felons sooner and later anyway, well some of us....

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Re: ATF Declared M855 illegal

Postby Nathan » Sun Feb 15, 2015 3:09 pm

Is this a ban on the sale, or is simple possession enough to make one a felon?
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libertyteeth
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Re: ATF Declared M855 illegal

Postby libertyteeth » Sun Feb 15, 2015 3:34 pm

It's not law yet.

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Ohio9
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Re: ATF Declared M855 illegal

Postby Ohio9 » Sun Feb 15, 2015 4:06 pm

From what I've heard the ATF is using the 1968 gun control act, which gives them the authority to ban armor piercing handgun ammo. Seems like this wouldn't apply to 5.56 or .223 rounds, but the problem is now that the AR15 has several handgun versions on the market. The concern is that the ATF will claim this makes such calibers "armor piercing". Hopefully this does not come to pass.

Anyway, to answer your question Nate, even if this policy does go into effect, it would not ban possession of AR ammo and turn us all into felons.

http://www.atf.gov/sites/default/files/ ... rposes.pdf



As explained above, in 1986, ATF held that 5.56mm projectiles in SS109 and M855 cartridges were exempt. Further, in 1992, ATF held that 30-06 M2AP cartridges were also exempt. In each case, ATF found that, “it is well documented” that the respective ammunition “has been recognized as being suitable for target shooting with rifles due to its accuracy.” Id. These cartridges were originally produced for the military and were only later adopted by civilians for sporting purposes. When assembled into a complete cartridge, the projectiles were exempt, but ATF did not exempt the projectiles before the cartridges were assembled.

Applying the sporting purposes framework set-forth above, the 5.56mm projectile that ATF exempted in 1986 does not qualify for an exemption because that projectile when loaded into SS109 and M855 cartridges may be used in a handgun other than a single-shot handgun. Specifically, 5.56mm projectiles loaded into the SS109 and M855 cartridges are commonly used in both “AR-type” rifles and “AR-type” handguns. The AR platform is the semi-automatic version of the M16 machinegun originally designed for and used by the military. The AR-based handguns and rifles utilize the same magazines and share identical receivers. These AR-type handguns were not commercially available when the armor piercing ammunition exemption was granted in 1986. To ensure consistency, upon final implementation of the sporting purpose framework outlined above, ATF must withdraw the exemptions for 5.56 mm “green tip” ammunition, including both the SS109 and M855 cartridges.

ATF recognizes that this ammunition is widely available to the public. Because it is legally permissible to possess armor piercing ammunition under current law, withdrawing the exemption will not place individuals in criminal possession of armor piercing ammunition. However, with few exceptions, manufacturers will be unable to produce such armor piercing ammunition, importers will be unable to import such ammunition, and manufacturers and importers will be prohibited from selling or distributing the ammunition.8 ATF is specifically soliciting comments on how it can best implement withdrawal of this exemption while minimizing disruption to the ammunition and firearm industry and maximizing officer safety. Under the proposed framework, the exemption for 30-06 M2AP cartridges would continue because ATF is not aware of any multi-shot handguns available in the ordinary channels of commerce that currently accept such ammunition.

With respect to the more than 30 requests received pursuant to section 478.148 that remain pending, the determination of whether to grant an exemption in a specific case will be made when the framework has been finalized. Those determinations will be conveyed separately to the respective requestors.



Here is perhaps the ATF's most absurd claim



Pursuant to the GCA, ATF must first determine whether such ammunition is “primarily intended” for sporting purposes before exercising its discretion to grant an exemption. However, that analysis also necessarily implicates the officer safety concern LEOPA was designed to address—ammunition containing armor-defeating metals that may be fired from relatively small, concealable firearms.



"relatively small, concealable firearms?" Who are they kidding? AR15 handguns are not small or concealable. They are huge ungainly guns that are so large it actually feels kind of wrong to call them pistols in the first place.

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Montanapatriot
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Re: ATF Declared M855 illegal

Postby Montanapatriot » Sun Feb 15, 2015 5:08 pm

Ammo falls under "law" and not a right. Anything they may give they can take away. Today it's M855,tomorrow it's whatever else they dream up.
They are proposing legislation on a threat that doesn't exist.

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Hand and Steel
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Re: ATF Declared M855 illegal

Postby Hand and Steel » Sun Feb 15, 2015 5:20 pm

This is revenge for people having fun with those arm-brace-stocks and slide-fire mechanisms.

Last year they banned 7N6, the cheapest 5.45x39 ammo, that was majorly armor piercing and made AK-74s affordable to shoot and to stockpile for. Then Barackhenaten Obummer signed some executive order banning the importation of many brands of inexpensive Russian ammo as a "sanction" on Russia over the Ukraine crisis, further limiting the supply of inexpensive rifle ammo.

This has nothing to do with armor piercing "handgun" ammo. It has nothing to do with "officer safety". It has everything to do with drying up the commercial supply of the types of rifle ammo that are best suited to defending the American people against all enemies, foreign or domestic.

Yeah yeah, I know, "Not more of this conspiracy stuff again." Well I don't know what you call it, but when I see an organization that's responsible for stuff like Ruby Ridge and Waco, a group of power hungry control freaks who will persecute and lock in a federal rape cage anyone who dares possess the same types of weapons they have, and they are squeezing off the supply of equipment that would be most effective to protect the public when their "Novus Ordo Seclorum" decides to finish off our once-great country, I call it a ****ing conspiracy.
"It is demonstrable that power structures tend to attract people who want power for the sake of power and that a significant proportion of such people are imbalanced — in a word, insane.” – Frank Herbert

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Montanapatriot
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Re: ATF Declared M855 illegal

Postby Montanapatriot » Sun Feb 15, 2015 9:21 pm

I agree, it's backdoor gun control. Dry up the ammo supply and starve the population of the means of defense or offense.

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Ohio9
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Re: ATF Declared M855 illegal

Postby Ohio9 » Sun Feb 15, 2015 10:43 pm

So basically if you want to get a type of rifle ammo banned, all you have to do is invent a handgun that can use it. It doesn't matter if the handgun is not popular or so large that it barely qualifies as a pistol. As soon as someone does this, the rifle ammo is magically turns into "armor piercing handgun rounds" and thus every single firearm that uses it is banned in effect.

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Hand and Steel
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Re: ATF Declared M855 illegal

Postby Hand and Steel » Sun Feb 15, 2015 10:55 pm

Ohio9 wrote:So basically if you want to get a type of rifle ammo banned, all you have to do is invent a handgun that can use it. It doesn't matter if the handgun is not popular or so large that it barely qualifies as a pistol.


You may remember they did the same thing with Chinese 7.62x39mm steel core rounds, claiming them to be "armor piercing handgun rounds" which was not correct, since the mild steel core the Chinese used was actually about as soft as the lead of the bullet and in no way enhanced its penetrative capabilities. Again, they claimed back then that it was "handgun ammo" since there were AK "pistols" on the market. The obvious real reason for it was that it was inexpensive and allowed the private individual to stockpile huge amounts of ammo at low costs.
"It is demonstrable that power structures tend to attract people who want power for the sake of power and that a significant proportion of such people are imbalanced — in a word, insane.” – Frank Herbert

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Hand and Steel
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Re: ATF Declared M855 illegal

Postby Hand and Steel » Tue Feb 17, 2015 6:10 pm

Send complaints to

Denise Brown, Mailstop 6N-602, Office of Regulatory Affairs, Enforcement Programs and Services, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives, 99 New York Avenue, NE, Washington, DC 20226: ATTN: AP Ammo Comments
"It is demonstrable that power structures tend to attract people who want power for the sake of power and that a significant proportion of such people are imbalanced — in a word, insane.” – Frank Herbert

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yankeejib
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Re: ATF Declared M855 illegal

Postby yankeejib » Fri Feb 27, 2015 4:29 pm

Monon Labe bitches.

1 of 12.....
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Smurf
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Re: ATF Declared M855 illegal

Postby Smurf » Sat Feb 28, 2015 6:57 am

The price of 5.56 has went out of sight over night.

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Ohio9
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Re: ATF Declared M855 illegal

Postby Ohio9 » Sat Feb 28, 2015 12:50 pm

Yep, regarldess of whether or not this does become law, the ATF's threat is going to massively increase M885 ammo sales. Of course that means prices will go up as well. Good thing I already have a decent stockpile of it

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Montanapatriot
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Re: ATF Declared M855 illegal

Postby Montanapatriot » Wed Mar 11, 2015 7:57 pm

Barry O'Bumble is the gun and ammo salesman of the century.


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