Defensive Knives

Knife, axe and edged tool discussions.
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Pickwick
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Defensive Knives

Postby Pickwick » Wed Feb 04, 2015 10:06 am

What kinds of defensive knives do you guys carry? I am currently alternating between an SOG Special Elite 1 and an S&W Extreme OPS. I actually prefer the SOG because it is quicker. But, the S&W is good, too. You have to push off a safety before you push the button. With the SOG, you just flick your wrist after partial opening.

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riadat
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Re: Defensive Knives

Postby riadat » Wed Feb 04, 2015 12:45 pm

I don't actually carry a defensive knife. Mine is a small buck lockback.

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Pickwick
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Re: Defensive Knives

Postby Pickwick » Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:49 pm

Well, I have never thought of a knife as a primary self-defense weapon, but I have several cop and detective friends who work big cities and they always carry a knife or two along with their primary weapon and back-up.

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riadat
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Re: Defensive Knives

Postby riadat » Thu Feb 05, 2015 9:30 pm

I own one of these i picked up for about 45 bucks shipped awhile back. Mine is the steel version not the black.

I have it rigged up for iwb and it conceals in a pair of shorts and a t-shirt. I sometimes throw it on instead of my gun if I had a couple beers and I want to take my dog for a walk. Here in Kansas any size knife is legal including switchblades.

http://www.crkt.com/Hissatsu

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Pickwick
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Re: Defensive Knives

Postby Pickwick » Fri Feb 06, 2015 6:00 am

Pretty wicked looking weapon.

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ridurall
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Re: Defensive Knives

Postby ridurall » Fri Feb 06, 2015 11:07 am

That is wicked looking, only one thing bothers me. No hilt to stop your hand from sliding up the blade on a strike type puncture. When I was a kid about 7 years old a pretty stupid for some reason I stabbed the ground with an old style butter knife. My hand slipped over the blade and it cut the crap out of me. Never forgot it. I don't carry a knife for a backup weapon but I always have my Buck 347 Boss with S30V steel blade on me.

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riadat
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Re: Defensive Knives

Postby riadat » Fri Feb 06, 2015 2:49 pm

I did the same thing once stabbing an old mattress when I was a kid. Seriously jacked myself up.

The handle has a rubber type material that is really grippy. With the blade shape I believe it would not slip. It is extremely nasty design. Not a tool but a killing weapon.

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ridurall
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Re: Defensive Knives

Postby ridurall » Fri Feb 06, 2015 8:33 pm

It's a wonder how many of us survived childhood. I remember getting caught by Dad when he found burned dots on his work bench in the utility room where I had gotten into his reloading powder and left evidence of screwing around with lighting it. Man I got my butt whipped for that but I can say he didn't whip me unless I screwed up.

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Pickwick
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Re: Defensive Knives

Postby Pickwick » Sat Feb 07, 2015 5:28 am

ridurall wrote:It's a wonder how many of us survived childhood. I remember getting caught by Dad when he found burned dots on his work bench in the utility room where I had gotten into his reloading powder and left evidence of screwing around with lighting it. Man I got my butt whipped for that but I can say he didn't whip me unless I screwed up.


My best friend and I went into his dad's shop, found a piece of galvanized pipe that a 12 ga. shell would fit in, clamped it in a vice, put a bucket in front of it, and hit it with a hammer. His Dad's comment: "You boys ain't got enough sense to come in out of a downpour of hog shit!" :D

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riadat
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Re: Defensive Knives

Postby riadat » Sat Feb 07, 2015 7:09 pm

One time I had a friend take all the shot out of a shotgun shell and run around chasing us with the shotgun. We were about 15 or so and drinking. Then he decides to shoot the shotgun and shoots the couch. He forgot to take the wadding out and it shot through the couch and into the wall.

How the hell we survived that period of time I still don't know.

The same time period my dad was out of town and trusted me-- I got locked up for throwing firecrackers at a police car and after curfew. They call him and say-- we have your son in the Juvie here are you coming back. My dad is like, no i will be back in 2 days you can keep him in jail.

Then of course when he gets back and gets me out of jail there is a 300 dollar phone bill and he calls one of the numbers and it is an 1-800 sex number.

Amazing thing is he didn't kill me.

nachodaddy
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Re: Defensive Knives

Postby nachodaddy » Fri Feb 13, 2015 1:47 pm

I carry a knife strictly for utility. Since I am not trained in knife fighting, I would be pretty foolish to believe that I could defend myself with one.

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Hand and Steel
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Re: Defensive Knives

Postby Hand and Steel » Fri Feb 13, 2015 4:32 pm

nachodaddy wrote:Since I am not trained in knife fighting, I would be pretty foolish to believe that I could defend myself with one.


Hold knife close to the side of the body where it can't be grabbed. Grab guy with off hand at close range to get around his defenses. Plunge knife repeatedly into his vitals, ripping as much as possible on the way out.

There's your basics.
"If everybody in the world today had a flower instead of a gun, there would be no wars!" - The Producers
"Women should always wear tight clothing and men should carry powerful handguns." - Calvin & Hobbes

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riadat
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Re: Defensive Knives

Postby riadat » Fri Feb 13, 2015 6:19 pm

The best book on knife fighting I read is the Sicilian blade.

The idea is essentially fencing if you want to get the executive summary. Stand sideways and present a small target and hold your knife like a fencer edge down. Move with your legs and make yourself as small a target as possible and take advantage of any openings your opponent gives you to either disarm, wound, or kill him.

Unless of course you can get your knife out without your opponent knowing then you stab the shit out of him and get away from him until he bleeds out. As hand and steel said.

Personally when it comes to knife fighting I would rather not be there or bring a gun.

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Hand and Steel
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Re: Defensive Knives

Postby Hand and Steel » Fri Feb 13, 2015 6:26 pm

riadat wrote:Personally when it comes to knife fighting I would rather not be there or bring a gun.


I like that strategy. :D

I've heard of the Sicilian Blade spoken of in high regards before. It sounds to be very similar to the Styer's Method that was taught in the Marine Corp.
"If everybody in the world today had a flower instead of a gun, there would be no wars!" - The Producers
"Women should always wear tight clothing and men should carry powerful handguns." - Calvin & Hobbes

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Pickwick
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Re: Defensive Knives

Postby Pickwick » Sat Feb 14, 2015 6:18 am

The knife should be kept out of sight of the opponent until the last second. Grabbing is ok if you know what you are doing but, when you grab, you are linked to your attacker in a way that he can use to his advantage. Thrusting attacks are better than slashing attacks but, if you slash, be sure to follow with a thrust. Muscle grabs…you may not be able to extract the knife as easily as you think…push in a bit more, twist sharply, then pull. Knife against knife fights as often depicted in movies, etc. are rare. Most of that stuff is BS. A knife will not intimidate some attackers…they will use a jacket or some available object to try to neutralize it. That is why you don't show it until the last second. You don't have to focus on the torso…you can kneel and attack just above and to the inside of the knee or the groin (go for the inguinal area, where you are more likely to hit the femoral). Of course, a serious thrust to the face is good, but it puts you close to the attacker and opens you up, as well. Remember, you cannot attack without leaving an opening in your defenses. Don't assume one of those BS "knife fighting stances" because they make you a target. Go from a fairly neutral, non-threatening position to an explosive attack. Once you go, do not change tactics but follow through with your attack. If your attack is strong enough, any adjustments he tries to make to counter you will probably be ineffective.

A gun is always better. I would prefer a three foot staff or a good night stick, rather than another knife, against a knife. A cane is ok, but it isn't really heavy enough for devastating attacks and most people do not know how to use one effectively.

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Hand and Steel
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Re: Defensive Knives

Postby Hand and Steel » Sat Feb 14, 2015 2:18 pm

Pickwick wrote:Knife against knife fights as often depicted in movies, etc. are rare. Most of that stuff is BS.

...

Don't assume one of those BS "knife fighting stances" because they make you a target. Go from a fairly neutral, non-threatening position to an explosive attack.


Could not agree more.
"If everybody in the world today had a flower instead of a gun, there would be no wars!" - The Producers
"Women should always wear tight clothing and men should carry powerful handguns." - Calvin & Hobbes

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riadat
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Re: Defensive Knives

Postby riadat » Sun Feb 15, 2015 4:52 pm

If someone threatened me with a knife and all i had was a knife then I would assume that silly knife fighting stance and turn sideways and stand like a fencer. I would probably also try and get a tree or a car between me and him.

Really when it comes to any fight you just want to cheat. If they have a fist then you use a club, if they have a knife then you use a gun. Shit whatever works, no do overs.

But in that rare knife vs knife scenario making a small target and waiting for your opponent to mess up is not a bad strategy. If you maintain a safe distance when they close the distance they make an opening. Make them go around a tree or a car then stab their ass and back off while they bleed and ask them if they want some more. Bet they say no.

Remember the OP made the title of this thread "defensive" knives.

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Hand and Steel
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Re: Defensive Knives

Postby Hand and Steel » Sun Feb 15, 2015 6:03 pm

riadat wrote: I would probably also try and get a tree or a car between me and him.

Really when it comes to any fight you just want to cheat. If they have a fist then you use a club, if they have a knife then you use a gun. Shit whatever works, no do overs.


Totally agree with that, too.

There's got to be room for different approaches for different individuals and situations. Some people might be able to get some punk thug to beat it just pulling a knife and giving them that look. Then again the same person might not have as much success doing that against two hopped up jackwagons egging each other on, and deception may be a better option (see example below). And then some people who are smaller, weaker or slower, or just not anywhere close to the physical fitness level of the attacker might be better served by a different approach, but whatever the case I agree that going knife-on-knife should only be seen as a viable plan if there are no better options, such as escape or pulling a gun, or some other viable "unequalizer".

There is a good anecdote in a book by Kelly McCann AKA Jim Grover, about this guy who was accosted by two thugs down a dark alley. One of them held him at knife-point and demanded his wallet. Knowing that capitulation with that type of street trash was often a fatal mistake, the individual in question pretended to comply and reach for his wallet, instead pulling a folding knife out of his back pocket and opening it. Before the thug could see what was happening and react to it, the individual acting in self defense slammed the blade of his folding knife into the street rat's throat. He picked up that guy's knife since his was still in the dude's throat, and used it to finish off the other attacker after a brief unarmed scuffle.

I think there's certainly value in being able to fight fluidly from a pragmatic stance, but I would only attempt it if I couldn't win through the element of surprise. I think also that the thing about a stance in a knife-on-knife fight is that it's mostly about the opening gambit, and that after someone pushes that gambit it basically turns into football tackles with sharp objects.

Different people are going to be able to make different things work better than others, different situations may call for different methods. Hell if any of us know exactly what we may end up facing.
"If everybody in the world today had a flower instead of a gun, there would be no wars!" - The Producers
"Women should always wear tight clothing and men should carry powerful handguns." - Calvin & Hobbes

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BULLDOG
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Re: Defensive Knives

Postby BULLDOG » Sun Feb 15, 2015 10:52 pm

All of my folding Knives,? As well as my fixed Blade Survival knives are from "COLD STEEL.? Company.? I love & trust their Products.? 8)

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Pickwick
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Re: Defensive Knives

Postby Pickwick » Mon Feb 16, 2015 5:05 am

Yes, Cold Steel is good.

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Hand and Steel
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Re: Defensive Knives

Postby Hand and Steel » Mon Feb 16, 2015 7:52 pm

BULLDOG wrote:As well as my fixed Blade Survival knives are from "COLD STEEL.? Company.? I love & trust their Products.? 8)


Can't go wrong even with their budget line products.
"If everybody in the world today had a flower instead of a gun, there would be no wars!" - The Producers
"Women should always wear tight clothing and men should carry powerful handguns." - Calvin & Hobbes

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Pickwick
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Re: Defensive Knives

Postby Pickwick » Tue Feb 17, 2015 5:50 am

Cold Steel has a repro 1860's cavalry saber that looks pretty much to spec. That sort of interests me as a War Between the States buff.

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riadat
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Re: Defensive Knives

Postby riadat » Tue Feb 17, 2015 4:05 pm

Paul Chen does some practical weapons that are pretty decent. His practical katana is nice and my roommate has one that has tempted me to purchase one for myself.


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