They picked the wrong victim

Incidents of shooting in defense of self or others.
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Ohio9
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They picked the wrong victim

Postby Ohio9 » Thu Mar 03, 2016 2:58 pm

http://6abc.com/news/police-man-65-shoo ... e/1226676/

Good thing no one died here, but I'm amazed the bad guys were able to walk away after being shot with a .45

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Re: They picked the wrong victim

Postby Nathan » Thu Mar 03, 2016 4:12 pm

Once again showing that it doesn't matter what you carry if you can't hit with it.
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Hand and Steel
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Re: They picked the wrong victim

Postby Hand and Steel » Thu Mar 03, 2016 4:27 pm

Ohio9 wrote:I'm amazed the bad guys were able to walk away after being shot with a .45


They were only shot once. No common pistol caliber can be counted on for a one shot stop. That's where firing in quick bursts comes in.
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Ohio9
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Re: They picked the wrong victim

Postby Ohio9 » Thu Mar 03, 2016 5:52 pm

Nathan wrote:Once again showing that it doesn't matter what you carry if you can't hit with it.


According to the video on the news article, he did score good hits in critical areas. Somehow even that wasn't enough.

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Re: They picked the wrong victim

Postby Nathan » Thu Mar 03, 2016 6:33 pm

The article says "stomach" and "shoulder". There is nothing in the stomach or shoulder that would incapacitate other than waiting for bleed-out.
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Re: They picked the wrong victim

Postby Ohio9 » Thu Mar 03, 2016 6:36 pm

Nathan wrote:The article says "stomach" and "shoulder". There is nothing in the stomach or shoulder that would incapacitate other than waiting for bleed-out.


For the second guy they said "neck and shoulder". You gotta figure the neck is as good a spot to hit as any.

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Re: They picked the wrong victim

Postby Nathan » Thu Mar 03, 2016 7:04 pm

"The unidentified man shot two men - one in the stomach, the other in the shoulder"

...as I said, it doesn't matter what you carry if you can't hit with it.
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Re: They picked the wrong victim

Postby Ohio9 » Thu Mar 03, 2016 7:30 pm

It said "neck and shoulder" in the video. Sometimes the video says things that aren't in the written words.

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Re: They picked the wrong victim

Postby Nathan » Thu Mar 03, 2016 7:35 pm

Must have read the teleprompter wrong. Regardless, it certainly explains why they both walked away. If you aren't going to learn marksmanship, carry 10mm and just shoot the ground in front of your threat. :D
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Re: They picked the wrong victim

Postby Ohio9 » Thu Mar 03, 2016 7:44 pm

I think it's a bit judgemental to assume poor marskmanship on the victim's part. The video said the victim fired shots after he was thrown to the ground and hit repeatedly. Under those circumstances it's hard to aim. Really, I think there is a very good chance he was shooting from the waist.

By the way, is a 10mm better in terms of stopping power then a .45?

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Re: They picked the wrong victim

Postby Nathan » Thu Mar 03, 2016 9:08 pm

Ohio9 wrote:I think it's a bit judgemental to assume poor marskmanship on the victim's part.

That's not a "judgement"; it's simple recognition. It doesn't matter the circumstances.


Under those circumstances it's hard to aim.

Doesn't matter. Besides, you aren't supposed to be aiming at that range anyway.


I think there is a very good chance he was shooting from the waist.

Possibly, but we are debating the unknown.


By the way, is a 10mm better in terms of stopping power then a .45?

Both are excellent choices, but in terms of stopping power potential, yes when loaded to potential. If you are shooting watered down 10mm off the shelf you might as well be shooting .40 (not a bad choice, either). When loaded to potential however, the 10mm is king. Colonel Cooper referenced the 10mm as the "heir apparent" (Google the phrase) to the .45.

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Re: They picked the wrong victim

Postby Ohio9 » Thu Mar 03, 2016 9:24 pm

Nathan wrote:When loaded to potential however, the 10mm is king.


Kind of surprising it never caught on as a mainstream service caliber in that case.

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Re: They picked the wrong victim

Postby Hand and Steel » Thu Mar 03, 2016 9:40 pm

Even if he was hit in the neck area... there are many examples of people being hit in the neck and even the head in which the bullet neither stopped the individual instantly or lead to eventual incapacitation. There are even instances where vital organs were for lack of a better term obliterated and the individual in question had enough time left to continue fighting, and in at least one instance I am aware of kill two people (by his own pistol fire) before bleeding to death. To further illustrate this point, I can call on my own "rolodex" of people I know personally who have been shot, and should not be among the living but still are. One individual had several wounds from rifle / machine gun fire with some of them on his chest and abdomen. Another also survived multiple gunshot wounds including a .357 that landed next to his heart. One man I know was hit with a shotgun blast at close range with some of the pellets going into his head. So even with powerful rounds and good placement, there's no guarantee of much of anything. Then again, plenty of people have been killed instantly with a single center mass shot from a rimfire. So all I know is that while powerful cartridges and quality bullets are nice, the important thing once the gun is in your hand is just to keep pumping rounds into solid target areas until they either flee or they go down.

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Re: They picked the wrong victim

Postby Hand and Steel » Thu Mar 03, 2016 9:43 pm

Ohio9 wrote:Kind of surprising it never caught on as a mainstream service caliber in that case.


The FBI was going to use it as their own for a while, but a lot of their staff were unable to handle the recoil. And hence the .40 S&W was born. Many fans of the 10mm Auto will tell you that .40 S&W actually stands for .40 "Short and Weak".

It's also quite hard on guns. There are only a few pistols out there which are strong enough to handle regular, high volume shooting with the 10mm.
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