Who Would Defend Their Property From Looters?

Proper response to hypothetical scenarios.
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BePrepared
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Who Would Defend Their Property From Looters?

Postby BePrepared » Wed Dec 10, 2014 1:11 am

Ferguson was probably just the beginning of more and more riots and "civil unrest" that we're going to see in this country. Evidence suggests that looters generally stay away from businesses which are guarded by men with guns.

So, who would protect their business, and who would not?

What if you had to protect it on your own, with no friends, family, or employees to help?

Would you defend your home, but not a business?
"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." - Jeff Cooper

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Tango 1
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Re: Who Would Defend Their Property From Looters?

Postby Tango 1 » Wed Dec 10, 2014 7:37 am

I don't own a business, but I damn sure would protect my home, my neighborhood.
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samuelrp
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Re: Who Would Defend Their Property From Looters?

Postby samuelrp » Wed Dec 10, 2014 7:59 am

If we don't, who will. Pillagers and looters would have to come inside to get anything.
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1813Anschutz
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Re: Who Would Defend Their Property From Looters?

Postby 1813Anschutz » Wed Dec 10, 2014 10:48 am

well stated ! Looters will only get my stuff after I am out of ammo...turns out I seem to be rather flush in that department!
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CharlieW
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Re: Who Would Defend Their Property From Looters?

Postby CharlieW » Wed Dec 10, 2014 9:38 pm

On this forum, everybody ...
Pragmatism -- the relentless pursuit of seeing things as they really are.

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riadat
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Re: Who Would Defend Their Property From Looters?

Postby riadat » Fri Dec 12, 2014 6:17 pm

I would protect myself and my family and friends, heck even my neighbors. I probably wouldn't shoot someone for breaking into my car but if they tried to break into my house I will do what ever needs to be done to protect lives.

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RagTop454
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Re: Who Would Defend Their Property From Looters?

Postby RagTop454 » Sat Dec 13, 2014 11:30 pm

Wife and I are retired, don't have a business to defend, all of our vehicles are parked inside, we live way out in the country and the exterior doors stay locked. So if anyone breaks into the house we would assess the threat, most likely feel that our lives were in danger and would appropriately defend ourselves until we ran out of guns and ammo, and that might take a while.

Glenn

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mattinglyt
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Re: Who Would Defend Their Property From Looters?

Postby mattinglyt » Sun Dec 14, 2014 8:07 pm

I'm in the middle of BFE down a long driveway. If you're trying to get into my home for whatever reason, just know that the locks are on the doors for your safety, not mine. Locks only keep honest people honest. I have loved ones inside that I will assume to be in danger if you're breaking in and I will protect at all cost. There will be no raping and pillaging of my home.
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hkguy
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Re: Who Would Defend Their Property From Looters?

Postby hkguy » Sun Dec 14, 2014 9:42 pm

ill protect my property. between my wife and i, we could cover the house and most of our neighbor hood likes guns to boot. we also have a few nurses and emergency responders too, so we are set. Though my wife will do most of the shooting and ill be busy keeping her guns loaded.
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Dubhan
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Re: Who Would Defend Their Property From Looters?

Postby Dubhan » Mon Dec 15, 2014 5:35 am

Most of my property and family exist in the same building. If looters come burn my car, then I'm just going to have to file an insurance claim. If they come through the door, I have to assume they aren't there to deliver cookies, and will respond accordingly.

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Brickkicker
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Re: Who Would Defend Their Property From Looters?

Postby Brickkicker » Mon Jan 05, 2015 3:33 am

I MAY use my gun if someone breaks in, but before I do I will grab some popcorn, my gun, and sit down on the couch and see what happens when my German shepherd sees the intruder!

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Grindstone Cowboy
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Re: Who Would Defend Their Property From Looters?

Postby Grindstone Cowboy » Fri Jan 16, 2015 6:37 pm

If they break into something unoccupied, it's not worth killing them over. If they break into my occupied building, then I can only assume they mean to do me and my family harm, then I'll shoot. Same goes outside my property; I don't know if they only want my wallet, or my life as well.
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Chris C
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Re: Who Would Defend Their Property From Looters?

Postby Chris C » Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:59 pm

As someone who has owned and operated a business, I happen to know for a fact that a business falls under the so called Castle Doctrine and you have every right to protect it as you would your home. Sometimes I worked late at night finishing up the day. One night I had someone throw a large stone through the glass front door to gain access. I was in the back, so the front office was not lit. I responded to the alarm and confronted the burglar, who was in the process of stealing a typewriter and check protecting machine. He dropped both pieces of equipment and fled. Would I, or could I have shot him? My life wasn't threatened, so in good conscience I couldn't shoot him. While we often have the right, it doesn't necessarily mean we should. Had he been visibly armed, his fate would have been different. Just my opinion.
Chris

As a regular course of procedure, I carry a pistol because a cop is too heavy!

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Pickwick
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Re: Who Would Defend Their Property From Looters?

Postby Pickwick » Thu Feb 05, 2015 5:04 pm

If somebody breaks into my business with me there, they go to the ER. When someone breaks into your house or business with you there (they know) you have to assume they are willing to kill you. You do not have time to deliberate or philosophize. Besides, you are doing the community a favor because they will do it again and again. These people rarely rehab. Think of it as pest control.

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Chris C
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Re: Who Would Defend Their Property From Looters?

Postby Chris C » Thu Feb 05, 2015 5:31 pm

I can't really disagree..................I just chose to do it differently that time, right or wrong. Neither of us died, which was my concern at the time.

And I might add, "things" can be replaced............a life can't.
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As a regular course of procedure, I carry a pistol because a cop is too heavy!

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ridurall
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Re: Who Would Defend Their Property From Looters?

Postby ridurall » Wed Feb 25, 2015 5:40 pm

Pickwick wrote:If somebody breaks into my business with me there, they go to the ER. When someone breaks into your house or business with you there (they know) you have to assume they are willing to kill you. You do not have time to deliberate or philosophize. Besides, you are doing the community a favor because they will do it again and again. These people rarely rehab. Think of it as pest control.


Well Pest Control is what I've been doing for the past 36 years. I'm good at it but however good I am I'm not going to be like that recent guy that set a trap to lure someone into his garage where he could then shoot them. He will be spending pretty much the rest of his life in prison. I hope to never have to protect myself or loved ones from some crook but I also hope I do not hesitate when the necessary time comes to protect ourselves.

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Smurf
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Re: Who Would Defend Their Property From Looters?

Postby Smurf » Thu Feb 26, 2015 6:32 am

Not to sound flippant, but try and see!

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yankeejib
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Re: Who Would Defend Their Property From Looters?

Postby yankeejib » Sun Mar 01, 2015 3:38 pm

I had an incident a few years ago that somewhat changed my perceptions and ideas. I've been held up and robbed twice before in last twenty years. I don't like it, It makes me mad, and so I got my license so I could flat-line kill the next motherfucker that tried this shit with me again. Then, a couple of years ago we had an attempted break in at home. I was asleep, and my wife woke me at 4am frantic, "someone is trying to get in the house". She said she'd heard him on the porch jiggling the door and then he walked around the side of the house and tried the window. I jumped up and fetched the 12 gauge. Wife is on the phone with 911 telling them I'm about to shoot someone. By the time I turned out all the lights and started peeking out he was trying to come in the back door. We have wrought iron gates on the doors, so no one's really getting in, but I was fired up. I opened the back door, lit him up, screamed at him, and gave him a face full of barrel. This guy was so out of it, he couldn't even recognize what his situation was. I dunno if it was drugs, mental problems, or what, but even though I would have been within my rights to splash his head defending my castle, it simply wasn't a life or death situation, only a nuisance. Now clearly, he COULD pose a lethal threat. I dunno what he's carrying, but it made me consider "what if's". What if he's like another incident near here where the drunk was trying to get into his house except he was at the wrong house a block off and the old lady that lived there killed him? What if he actually got in the house (now he's a total legal two-legged varmint target), but he still has zero ability to do anything harmful to me? I would feel bad wasting a human being especially if I have to clean up the mess and repair the damage before I get sued by his estate. This is where non-lethal defense comes in handy. I could have just OC'd him except I didn't have it. I could also just lay a piece of pipe or wood upside his head and tuck him in. As it was, he walked back around the front of my house, and laid down on my porch swing just as the cops showed up. Mental case, not chemicals.

Read Ayoob. Clean shots are AOJP. A= ability. Does the BG have the ability to cause your lethal harm, like a weapon? O=opportunity. Is there an opportunity for the BG. Most of this is your proximity to the BG. J= jeopardy. If you do nothing, is your life in imminent danger? Then the big one that gets most people in trouble is P=preclusion. Did you do everything you could to prevent a conflict? Flipping the bird, brandishing, posturing, cursing, or threatening have all been the undoing of many a self-defense prosecution. In my case: I don't know if the guy had ability. He definitely had opportunity, but only because I gave it to him. I wasn't really in any jeopardy until I engaged him, and therefore, my preclusion was terrible. I should have sat tight, maybe set up a bench rest on the kitchen table, and waited for the pigs.

Now having said all that, we have a problem in my neighborhood right now with car break ins. Neighbors have lost some property. I just hooked up my silent motion detectors again (motion detectors from old flood lights, no bulbs, a 12V battery, and a door bell buzzer in my bedroom) because I think nothing would be more fun than wailing away with a blackjack or butt-stroking the living shit out of some common car thief/dirtbag. I would be able to collect the DNA off the pavement for the prosecution.
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Doing what others find difficult is talent.
Doing what others find impossible is genius,
Why be difficult when, with a little more effort, you can be entirely impossible.

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Pickwick
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Re: Who Would Defend Their Property From Looters?

Postby Pickwick » Sun Mar 01, 2015 4:15 pm

Even the AOJP is too pat. When you need to shoot, you need to shoot NOW! Stuff like that encourages deliberation, in my opinion, and you just don't often have time for that. If you feel threatened, you need to shoot. Also, many bad guys do not need a weapon to cause you lethal harm, especially if you are old or weak. It really is a situational individual call, and every one is different.

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yankeejib
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Re: Who Would Defend Their Property From Looters?

Postby yankeejib » Mon Mar 02, 2015 6:45 pm

Pickwick wrote:Even the AOJP is too pat. When you need to shoot, you need to shoot NOW! Stuff like that encourages deliberation, in my opinion, and you just don't often have time for that. If you feel threatened, you need to shoot. Also, many bad guys do not need a weapon to cause you lethal harm, especially if you are old or weak. It really is a situational individual call, and every one is different.


I would guess you're not a very big fan of the OODA loop either?

Dropping the hammer can be very costly, and not just for the highly deserving stiff. Training is essential to keep your head in the game. AOJP and OODA may be simple models, but they exist for a purpose.
Sincerely,
Professor Stu Padasol

Doing what others find difficult is talent.
Doing what others find impossible is genius,
Why be difficult when, with a little more effort, you can be entirely impossible.

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Pickwick
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Re: Who Would Defend Their Property From Looters?

Postby Pickwick » Tue Mar 03, 2015 4:12 am

They are training/awareness tools which are fine for what they are. Things happen fast, however, and those text book/seminar formats usually happen automatically and reflexively when attacked. If you see a burglar breaking into your house, or have some idea that a gang of Obamanites down the block might mean trouble, well then you have time to play the alphabet game. A lot of situations do not allow that. Just sayin'

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yankeejib
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Re: Who Would Defend Their Property From Looters?

Postby yankeejib » Tue Mar 03, 2015 7:55 pm

Pickwick wrote:They are training/awareness tools which are fine for what they are. Things happen fast, however, and those text book/seminar formats usually happen automatically and reflexively when attacked. If you see a burglar breaking into your house, or have some idea that a gang of Obamanites down the block might mean trouble, well then you have time to play the alphabet game. A lot of situations do not allow that. Just sayin'


Believe me, I'm right with you. I'm the biggest fan of sucking chest wounds and gaping head shots for sorely deserving scumbags. My only point is "training tools" will serve you well when situations exceed your SA capabilities and will (hopefully) allow you to "win" the fight, maintain your advantage, save your life AND avoid expensive criminal or civil liabilities. If the situation causes you to act without consideration, then your exposure to future sanctions is much greater. AOJP is a common criteria for prosecuting self defense shootings and OODA is taught in everything from self-defense, military combat, litigation, and sports. It is a tool to teach you to assess and act quicker than your opponent while causing them delays in doing the same.
Sincerely,
Professor Stu Padasol

Doing what others find difficult is talent.
Doing what others find impossible is genius,
Why be difficult when, with a little more effort, you can be entirely impossible.

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Renigeid
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Re: Who Would Defend Their Property From Looters?

Postby Renigeid » Sat Oct 10, 2015 2:34 pm

Please do not break into my home. It would definitely be a hazard. JIm


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